Raising Financially Responsible Children w/ Joanna Martin

Transcript

Speaker 1  0:01  

The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.

Christian Rodwell  0:19  

Welcome to Episode 212 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders joined today by our founder Mr. Kevin Whelan. Good afternoon, Kevin

Speaker 3  0:29  

Cruz, good to be with you again. We've been out and about Haven't we recently

Christian Rodwell  0:32  

shall have Yeah, we were in London Town playing games. So I was hosting the cashflow 101 game last night and you are taking a look at another game just down the road.

Speaker 3  0:42  

Life size monopoly, right not rolling a dice and moving your shoe from one place to the other. But landing on properties and having escape rooms with challenges to win the property. Giant board games for up to 20 people at a time well organised well structured right in the heart of London. And literally a hop skip and a jump away from where you were doing the cash flow one on one would seem to be pretty good. And a few people I understand got out of the rat race cruise.

Christian Rodwell  1:13  

They did. They did indeed. So this is the board game that Robert Kiyosaki the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad created many years ago actually. And we were playing it often before the pandemic and glad say it's back. And we're kicking off in London. Obviously, that's sort of our home turf. But we appreciate we've got listeners all across the country. So fear not, we will be travelling with those boards. In fact, just announce our next event that's coming up, which is a networking drinks evening in Manchester. And that's taking place on Wednesday, October the 18th. In a lovely location in the heart of Manchester, we'll put the link in today's show notes. And if you're on the wealth builders mailing list, which hopefully you are, you'll receive some emails with all of the details. And we're going to be up there, Kevin. So we look forward to seeing some more new faces. Well, that's right.

Speaker 3  2:00  

And I was actually speaking I did a speaking engagement yesterday on the whole subject of wealth for a lovely lady called Debbie who's got a fantastic venue up in the northeast, I have to say it in Sunderland, which is not really my favourite parts of the world for obviously, reasons but Newcastle versus Sunderland, but I could be persuaded. Instead, she's got a great venue and potentially would be hosting something up in the Northeast as well. So we're coming to a town near you soon.

Christian Rodwell  2:29  

Absolutely. And if you just want to go to a central place and see where the nearest event is to you, then you can head to the wealth builders website as wealth builders.co.uk forward slash events. And one of the first events you will see is our big families launch, which is taking place next week, Tuesday, the third of October, we've been talking about this over the last few podcast episodes, Kevin. But finally we're ready to share with all of our members, our listeners, our community, everything that we're doing to bring together parents who really feel passionately about sharing their knowledge, their wisdom, their lessons with their children, their teenagers, their young adults, to help them become better financial role models.

Speaker 3  3:10  

Yeah. And and also so that the net result is we've got responsible, generous, good natured young adults capable of making good financial decisions, not wasteful ones, perpetuating the legacy that we absolutely want and getting involved in that. So they can cope with life. It's not trying to make people superstars, it's trying to make people super conscientious. And we really want to do that. Well. Although we often lament that they don't teach it at schools. So I think for many reasons, schools could reinforce it. But it's the parents who are the best influences, in my view, not least because we're with them for longer than anybody else, not just during the day, but but also during their lives. So we need to be the best influence we can be. Might be worth mentioned a quiz as well, Chris.

Christian Rodwell  4:00  

Absolutely. We've created a quiz how to be a great money role model for your children, teenagers and young adults. I'll link to that in today's show notes because I'm throwing out lots of URLs. So to save you scribbling it down you might be in the gym, you might be walking you might be driving, just know that you can find all of the information on today's show notes or head to the wealth builders website wealth boost or Coda UK, again, will be the place to go for that. But definitely join us next week on our family's launch. We've got two sessions on Tuesday, the third of October, one at lunchtime, one in the evening. We'd love for you to be there. We've got so much to share. Again, link will be in the show notes for today.

Speaker 3  4:37  

What's really interesting for me, Chris, I see the numbers pouring in to attend it is it's equally divided almost exactly between the lunchtime session and the evening session. So deliberately conscientiously designed to give people access when they can and we will be making a one time very, very special opportunity for people to get involved. At such a super low cost it costs, it's not even a brainer, we're not even to talk about that. We just really want to kickstart this mission, this campaign with a bunch of energy that just explodes out. We want the quiz, which is all about what type of money role model or you know how to be a great money role model, but I get where you're going there. And we want to just get parents involved. And obviously, we're going to talk to somebody today is very much an entrepreneurial mum, very focused on her children. But and it's got a unique female insight that we absolutely think is grey. But you know, we want this to reach out to moms, two dads to grandmas and granddad's and carers and aunts and uncles, and all sorts of people who've got a very special reason to care about the financial success of their younger ones. And we're very passionate about it. So yeah, please, if you can make it come along on third of October.

Christian Rodwell  5:56  

Yeah, so lots of exciting things going on there. And we don't want to deflect the attention from our fantastic guests today, who is Dr. Joanna Martin, and many of you perhaps have attended one of her workshops been to one of her events, and Joanna's a real leader of women and inspiring women to really make change. And especially through the difficult times of the last few years, supporting busy women to increase their impact. It's all about impact Joanna, and entrepreneurship as a byproduct of really her own calling, which is to help women make a big change. And we're going to be hearing from Joanna today, what it's like for her role as an authority in her space, as an author, as someone who's on social media a lot. But then we've two young children as well, that need attention, and hearing how, and our husband Greg, have been helping them in their own journey of understanding more about money and about finance,

Speaker 3  6:49  

and some very interesting insights. Some of them are an absolute reflection of our own value set, Chris, in some very interesting distinctions that I'm sure people will find inspiring and perhaps want to follow.

Christian Rodwell  7:00  

Yes, indeed. And Joanna actually appeared on the podcast back in April 2020. That was episode 54. And she was talking then about creating intellectual property. So courses and products. So if you're interested in that, again, go and check that episode out after you finish today's and I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But let's have a listen now to our conversation with Dr. Joanna Martin. Joanna, welcome back to wealth talk today. How are you?

Speaker 4  7:26  

I'm very well, thank you, Kristen. I'm thrilled to be back talking to you again. I love having chats with you.

Christian Rodwell  7:32  

Yeah, I know, it was probably COVID days when we last had you on the podcast. Things have moved on. How's How's business going for you at the moment? What's what's going on?

Speaker 4  7:40  

Yeah, it's going really well, thank you. It's going really, really well. I feel like we've just got to that point where I feel like we safely stewarded our community of, you know, mothers and breadwinners and carers through what was probably one of the toughest chapters in our generation. And we've come out the other side, and we're in a really good strong place, the community is thriving, we tripled our client base, actually, during COVID. Because women got more stress, not less during that time, so bought out a few more programmes to support them as well. So we got very, very busy, which was the challenge then for me was how to, you know, scale and grow. And then then once it was all done, simplify and streamline, because it all happened very fast. And you know, when things go fast, they don't always go in the most elegant way. But it's going fantastically well. I'm really happy.

Christian Rodwell  8:34  

Yeah, well, you're looking fantastic, as well. So things are obviously going well. And we know your husband, Greg Well, today, we're going to find out a bit more about your family, Joe, and some of the things that you're doing to help your children learn about money business, and just become more rounded individuals as they grow up. And so let's find out a bit more about your family. So tell us who who are the members, Joe?

Speaker 4  8:53  

Yeah, well, the immediate family, I mean, my husband, Greg, we're both Australian living in the UK. And my two kids, James is 10. And Rosie is six. So

Christian Rodwell  9:03  

you've obviously had 10 years of experience of being a woman in business, you know, running events. I know, you know, you're always always doing something, Joe. Let's start there, perhaps because some of the conversations I've had over the last couple of weeks have been with the men. So obviously a different perspective. And I imagine a few more plates that might have to be spun, helping the children as they grow up. You know, let's talk about that from home the role of the women in business, being a mother as well. Yeah,

Speaker 4  9:27  

do you know I think there is something unique that and I'm not gonna say every man and every woman because I think every partnership is different, but on the whole certainly what we notice in our community is that the mothers tend to also be the emotional stability and support for the kids so as soon as you become a woman running your own business and Greg and I are in both business together and in life together and parenting together, you know, we do do it all. But there is the extra pressure always on me because the kids want Mum when Things are tough emotionally, I'm the one that they want, which for us, especially is challenging because I'm the front person in the business. So I'm the one that can't be interrupted, but he can be his back office stuff. So he can be interrupted for five or 10 minutes so he could deal with falling apart at the seams. And I might be running a live event or doing a podcast like this, and I can't, but they want me. So I think that is one piece that makes it slightly more challenging for women in business than men if they are parents. Then the second one is, we do experience our emotional ups and downs more acutely, I think, than our male counterparts. Most of the men that I've interviewed over the years or known in my life seem to be able to compartmentalise I'm not saying you don't have emotions, you clearly do. But your ability to not let them seep across everything, I think is something which is brilliant, and something I admire about the masculine energy, which for women were a little bit more connected. Like the work part of my brain is much more connected to the family part of my brain is much more connected to my relationship part of my brain than I then I see reflected in Greg. So emotional ups and downs, shake us a bit more. And in most of the mentoring that I've done of women in business over the last few decades now. We're only ever as pouring ourselves into our business, as our kids allow us space for there will always be the higher, the higher priority, and we'll pace around that. So it's not a gripe or a whinge. I think it's just an observation of what I've noticed and what I see in the community. But it is something to be managed. And it's something you know, I certainly for Greg and I, we have an incredible partnership. I couldn't ask for someone better in partnering in both life and business, but it is a constant conversation for us always and me having to be able to articulate the kind of support I need from him, and the kind of support he needs from me.

Christian Rodwell  11:58  

And how do you think or do you see this influencing James and Rose, seeing you doing what you do? Social media was such a big following. What science have you seen? Are they curious to ask questions about what you're doing? Are they showing some signs of wanting to follow in your footsteps? Yeah,

Speaker 4  12:14  

yes and no. So depends on that. Yeah. So let me tell you what I'm noticing. First of all, because I teach women, I have been very cautious over the years because of course, cultural paradigm we know we live in in a paradigm that prioritises the male experience and that that is the way that it is and has been for generations. However, in our little family bubble, it's all about the women. My kids don't have a lot of men in their lives. We live on the other side of the country from our families. Greg's not a big friend maker, so he doesn't have loads of blokes around or anything. So the kids only see women, they see me teaching women, so I've got to be very careful. I remember when James was about four or five. He asked me Mum, why don't you teach men and I had to explain patriarchy to a four year old, you know, and then at one Christmas, I had a, I've got a Christmas jumper that says slay spells, you know, the Santa's slay, slay the patriarchy. And the kids like, oh, what does that mean? So we have some having some really interesting conversations around that. But I have to be super careful to not have it swing the other way in our little bubble, you know, because they see Mum going out to work. I'm the one who goes away all of the time. Greg's the one who's doing a lot more of the domestic kind of side of things. And I don't want either of them to grow up thinking that that's the norm either, you know, like norm can be whatever works for the couple and whatever works for the partnership. And certainly that men absolutely deserve to be educated and you know, because I could see his little brain starting to go. Alright, so men don't need that or want that or don't deserve it, or what what was that he was trying to unpick, so that was really interesting, just through that lens. But then on the general entrepreneurship side, yeah, James has wanted to be an inventor and entrepreneur since he was about four. He started he got his first locking diary, and it is full of business plans and who is going to be CEO and who's going to be the what was his mate Oliver like painting, so he was going to paint the cars that he was going to design and so he's always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And rose actually should totally take over the family business. Like she is a better version of me. You know, she's bold and courageous. She gets stuff faster than most of the people I teach. Yeah, she reflects things back to me sometimes she catches me when I'm having a stressful moment and she says come your mum, she looks me in the eyes and she goes come on two more mum. Sounds like you're amazing. Good thing. So she has said to me and I have to be really careful not to jump on it and go yes, let's do this together. Rose because I will want her to have her life, she also wants to be a pop star. So we'll see. But both of them want several kinds of different sorts of careers. And I'm at the stage where I just encourage that, because what I now do for a living, I didn't even know existed when I was six. And I think some of the things they're dreaming of doing, may or may not even need doing, I think they'll probably always be room for pop stars, but, you know, may or may not even need doing when they're, they've got jobs, you know, who knows? Like, will engineers still be engineering? Or will computers be doing it all for us? You know, I don't know what that's gonna look like. And that's where James is kind of tending into that arena. But yeah, they're definitely very curious about business. Rosie just in the car on the way home started saying, Mum, what what earns the most money. So you know, she's starting to go or some things, earn more money than others. And then we had the conversation about well, these are the sorts of things that earn the most money. I said, I think always it's having your own businesses, you're going to have the capacity to earn earn the most. But you've got to love it, you've got to also be doing something that you enjoy along the way as well. Otherwise, you're not going to stick with it. So it doesn't really matter.

Christian Rodwell  16:04  

Well, that's a good point, actually about earning money. And I've been asking the question around pocket money, you know, how do you introduce that? And is it simply handing over an amount every week? Or is there some kind of relationship with Well, you've got to earn, you've got to create value, you know, the time for money relationship, but how do you see all of that? Yeah, see,

Speaker 4  16:23  

Greg and I, we've had so many conversations about this before it came along. We were like adamant that there was going to be no, you earn it for chores, because burger that no one pays me for a second the dishwasher Do you know, so it's like we weren't going to do jobs and earning pocket money. And then I spoke to my sister last Christmas. And she said, You don't have to do it forever. You've got to get them started with money, though or otherwise. And it was actually a fair shout. So where we've ended up with it is that, first of all, we waited until James was curious about money. And basically, that happened on the back of being very curious about Lego and wanting more Lego. So when he wanted Joker mana, which was this ridiculously expensive, huge Batman did of Lego kit, that's when we introduced pocket money. And for him, we linked it to reward on some of the things that we wanted him to be doing at that time. This was like sleeping his own bed. And that kind of stuff is how we started. But that was about when he was four. And when when we started though, because I wanted him to just earn the money and be able to save up for his Lego to start with. But I was very cautious, because I didn't want to teach my kids that you earn money, and you get to spend it all on fun stuff. Because I know as an adult now, you got to divide it up responsibly, some for now, some for later, some for contribution. So I promised James that when he turned five, I would teach him the secrets of money. And I didn't want I kind of then made it this exciting thing that he was going to learn when he was five. So just after his fifth birthday, I taught him for Really Simple money secrets. And he was he loves secrets back then, which were the kind of principles that I teach my community now but distilled into a simpler to understand version. So the principle of adding value, you know, of doing something of greater value to attract money, I called money goes to people who help people. And the principle of looking after your money, you know, budgeting and taking care of it. We called money stays with people who look after it. So in our house, if you find 10 Pee on the ground, and no one's looking after it, it's yours because no one's really taking care of that. If we find it in the street, we look around and see if someone's lost it but you know, as long as it gets looked after, and money likes to flow was another one. So that kind of sets up the contribution side and the giving side. So we talked him through these simple pieces, and I explained compound interest. In addition to that, I taught him then that he had three jars that he had the Grow jar, the fun jar and the give jar and the Grow jar. So every pound that he earned from then on and Rosie learned all of this much earlier because she's watching an older sibling So right from the get go she's on board she wants to jars before she can even ride on them, you know, but now every pound uns get split equally between the three jars just to keep the math simple. The grow jar or goes into a savings account to start with until he started getting pissed off about like interest rates and like now's the time to learn about you know, investment vehicles. The fun jar gets busted up on LEGO now it's evolved for James into Rubik's cubes for Rose its soft toys with the big beanie eye things. And the gift jar is the money that they get to give and occasionally they will they will know I'm doing a fundraiser for The Hunger Project which I'm the chair of here in the UK. And occasionally on socks day at school, they have to take some money along so they take it from their own contribution jar so it has a meaning for them because they've earned that money. So yeah, that's how we do it. And then the earning pocket money where we're at at the moment, and it has evolved over time, we started out it was just to do with living our values. So we have a set of family values that we've created together. That's where it started exclusively. Like I said, at Christmas time, I knew I needed help getting jobs done. So Cassie, just do it for a period of time. So now it's both it's our values and chores in the pocket money, it seems to work well, we don't just hand it out. It's got to be adding some value helping out. And then we look for evidence of our values. So we have like empathy, and taking care of ourselves, like looking after our bodies, and love and kindness and things like that. So as we go, at the end of every day, we sit down at dinner time, and they've got their little charts that are laminated that have got the values and their jobs on it. And we go, how did you demonstrate empathy today? How did you demonstrate looking after yourself today? And if they can't remember, and they can't come up with an idea, they don't get their tech and they don't get the money? And it works? Well. It's so far shaping good little humans.

Christian Rodwell  21:04  

Well, it sounds like it. No, that's fantastic to hear. And we've created a family wealth declaration as well, Joe, which our members sign and, and it's really the same kind of concepts, you know, integrity, sharing community helping one another, just being a good person. But then, I guess, sticking on this sort of financial theme. And obviously some of the, you know, the lessons that you're sharing and teaching with your children are brilliant there. But what are they learning about money and finance at school, from what you're aware,

Speaker 4  21:31  

next to nothing, actually, from what I can figure out to be perfectly honest, I mean, they're working out I mean, Rosie is still pretty little so then she's still learning the value of the currency and stuff. And as for James, I've never heard them talking about anything. So from what I'm what I'm experiencing, what they're learning about money is all coming from us at the moment.

Christian Rodwell  21:51  

And what's your thoughts on that? Why do you think that schools are not helping children to understand more about what a payslip is or the fact that tax will be taken from what you earn and these simple things that, you know, suddenly they leave school? And they like, wow, why didn't anybody telling me this?

Speaker 4  22:06  

Yeah, exactly. My guess as to why is because it's not part of what is on the Ofsted checklist of what we have to be getting good at do. You know, like, there's a mandate, obviously, from the government about what we have to be graduating children with. And it's not with any education around wealth, it's that they can read and write and do basic maths. And that's about it. I think our education system really is letting young people down dramatically. Not. I want to be really clear here, not teachers, I think teachers are bloody awesome. But I think there is a real structural or focus change that needs to occur there. At least we're starting to see more growth mindset as a topic and and a way of being coming into the conversation. So at least we're seeing it on the, you know, on the mindset side, I think starting to come into the education system, certainly at my kids school, they're very good on that stuff. But yes, financial literacy, and you know, appreciation of all of that I don't think it's there. And I do think it needs to be I absolutely think it needs to be

Christian Rodwell  23:08  

obviously children now surrounded by social media surrounded by influencers, some of them speaking some truth, some of them not. Are you seeing any signs? Maybe more? So James? Is he talking about things he's watching and seeing online? Is that a potential worry for you?

Speaker 4  23:24  

James is pretty awesome in that he's quite a sensible kid. And he can't lie to me. So he and I have good conversations very rarely as an introvert so we don't talk at all during the day but at bedtime. I snuggled into bed with him and that's our time for a chat and provided I asked the right questions. He's he's pretty forthcoming about things. So he does watch YouTube Greg and I had a long conversation around it because I don't I'm not was never quite sure about YouTube because it's uncensored content, right? At least on television and apps and BBC apps and things it's all age appropriate. And Greg assured me with James, he goes and looks at everything is looked at weekly so he's pretty clear what he's watching it's all Minecraft or Mr. Beast is the worst of it. However, I am nervous about the potential future so the worst stuff that's coming through at the moment is that he's watching this Mr. Beast guy who goes and does ridiculous I mean, he make this man makes a tonne of money on his YouTube subscribers and then does these incredible stunts. And the most recent one James was telling me about which was kind of slightly financial was he did something about you know, staying in this James called it a 200 grand a night hotel, versus staying in a 20 pound hotel or something like that. He did and he was comparing the two. So there's a little bit there. I think of massive amounts of wealth and being able to do things I can see that starting to come in a bit. To be honest, it's less I think, for the age that my kids are at social media is not the problem is just we choose to privately educate our kids but through where we are currently living in the world and blissful ignorance on our behalf, we've ended up in a very overprivileged pocket of the Cotswolds. And some of the kids that our kids go to school with are like, so incredibly wealthy. And my main worry is that they kind of are starting to think that the sorts of parties that they go to is normal, you know, to have this extreme generosity, you know, overdoing it kind of thing. So we have conversations about that a lot, and about the privilege that we have. I know social media is going to be massive and Rose, I think he's going to be more sensitive to it than James. I think firstly, being a girl but also being much more aware of others. She's very tuned in to the opinion of others I can already see even at the age of six. So I think other than James looking at YouTube, Rosa isn't allowed YouTube at the moment. But other than that, they're not on any platforms. And I will not be allowing that till they're at least in high school, and they will hate me for it. But we don't do computer games. James has not been allowed Minecraft since he was nine, I think but I don't let him do the shoot up games or any of that sort of stuff. Because it just like know what, how it messes with their brains. You know, I know what all of the dopamine experts these organisations have. And they're just too little and still developing to be messing with all of that. So I'm ready to be hated, but putting the line in the sand. Yeah.

Christian Rodwell  26:29  

And I mean, games obviously have a have a place and certainly in terms of helping kids understand more about money, things like that monopoly, obviously is the original. But yeah, Robert Kiyosaki is cashflow. Have you introduced any games and played with them? You know, to help them understand around that topic?

Speaker 4  26:44  

Yeah, we've got monopoly. And we enjoy that. Also the good old game of life, which was one that I grew up with, which needs a little bit of commentary because you don't necessarily invest or do any of that, I think monopoly and certainly cashflow much, but we don't actually have cash flow, we should get it I think the kids would be well into that. It certainly makes the points of you know, do you go to university and do get get an education or go straight to work, it makes the points of kids a bloody expensive sorts of things. We do enjoy those sorts of games. And you've just reminded me, I really need to get my we used to we have cash flow back in Australia, but I don't have it over here. And I think James especially would be absolutely ready for that.

Christian Rodwell  27:22  

Yeah, I'm sure that would be a lot of fun. You mentioned university there, Joe. So obviously, that's something that may or may not be a decision for them to go to university, student debt now is a real issue, right? And young adults are coming out of university with 20 3040 50,000 pounds worth of debt around their shoulders. And, again, you know, how do you view that? And is that something you'll be able to support them with? Do you think or help them to maybe save up to manage that debt,

Speaker 4  27:48  

where Greg and I have come from around this is that we have decided that we will pay for our kids education, but not for their life. I went to university, Greg didn't, I don't believe University is necessary if someone wants to be an entrepreneur or wants to kind of go down that route. So I'm not, I'm not as attached to have to get a uni degree, perhaps as many people are having said that I can see with James his brain or take him in that direction yet to discover with Rose. But for us, we're already paying for education. So for us, it will just be an extension of that if they want to go to uni, it'll be on us. If they want money to spend drinking themselves under a table with their mates at university, that bit will be on them. So the version of how I went through university back then, you know, I was very lucky and that the government paid for my university degree, I got an allowance from the government as a student as well. But if I wanted anything other than just basic living expenses, I had to have a job. So we'll be absolutely encouraging jobs from an early age and encouraging these habits that we've set up from the beginning. You don't get to spend all that money that goes across these different accounts, you know, encouraging that to continue, but the actual paying for the degrees, the paying for the basics. I'm up for that, you know, and it's a decision, a decision that we've made. So hopefully, I'm hoping that our kids will, at least intellectually understand good debt and bad debt by the time they're getting access to it, and fingers crossed. I think you can't save them from everything. They've got to learn the lesson the hard way. Even though I didn't have student debt, per se, I've managed to clock up 19 grand in consumer debt by the time I was 21. And had to figure out a way out of it. I think these things happen, don't they? Yeah.

Christian Rodwell  29:41  

So be interesting, actually, you know, did you have any financial role models yourself looking back Joe as a child was the conversations around money in your own household like

Speaker 4  29:49  

there weren't any and so I think my kids are going to be in better stead because we discussed this and we you know, educate and we talk about money whereas in my in my family through, I was no folder My parents, you know, so they were doing the best they could with what they had. But my parents went through that incredibly difficult time in the in the 90s, you know, the early 90s, where interest rates were massively high. And my stepfather, my mother owned a department store, community department store, you know, selling zips and woollen clothes and things like that. And during the early 90s, it was massively stressful. I now know having spoken to them about it, mum and Roger had just bought the building that they were in, and then mortgage rates went up through the roof. So things were super tight. But all I remember about that whole period of time is just sitting quietly at the dinner table. We weren't allowed to talk. We just watched the news. So we never even spoke as a family really about anything. Don't get me wrong, mom and the girls, you know, once the formal dinner and stuff was done with our stepfather, and so on, we'd get out in the kitchen and natter about school or, or whatever, as we were doing the dishes. But we never spoke about money. We never spoke about how we were doing. We never learned anything. It was just very hush hush, and never discussed unless was that Oh, no, no, we can't have that we can't afford it. You know, that was a constant thing. But there was always enough for what we needed. I then discovered that that had become a belief for me that there's always just enough to cover what you needed, but never more than enough. And that was something I had to deal with. Early on in my personal development journey. I think on my dad's side, dad was a big spender. He likes big displays of things. But he always broke a lot of promises to you know, he would promise to take us to Disneyland or promised to take us to Morocco, or promised to do, and none of it ever eventuated. So he kind of liked to be seen to have a lot of money, but then often didn't, because, you know, he was feast and famine, you know, keep the wolves from the door kind of entrepreneur, then he'd lose the lot. You know, he had five failed business partnerships. And then I mean, in one case, he took the recommendation of his ex business partner who literally done him in for his next business partner. I'm like, Dad, now I'm 17. And I can see that this is a problem. Come on. So you know, not great role models, Dad was up and down like the entrepreneurial yo, yo, and mum and Roger were very security focused, but very quiet. So everything I know now about building wealth, about being financially responsible about entrepreneurship is stuff. I've learned myself from scratch.

Christian Rodwell  32:21  

Yeah. And do you think looking back, you know, now, was there a trigger that almost pushed your launched you into that direction? Was it perhaps because you had grown up? And I don't know, do you? Can you see anything that obviously really sparked you to follow that path?

Speaker 4  32:35  

For me, I think like in an identity level, I feel like I'm an artist, coach, change maker first, entrepreneurs Second, don't get me wrong. I love business. And I'm very curious about and I love learning about it. And I love supporting people around it. But for me, it wasn't a push into entrepreneurship. It was a call into helping people as a coach. And I pretty quickly discovered I had to bloody work out how to sort out money to be able to if I wanted the honour of running my own business, helping people, I needed to do the work of sorting out the debt that I had to start with, and then managing money effectively to be able to continue to do that. So it was a calling into my life's purpose. And then I had to figure out the business stuff to be able to do it, I suppose, was my experience of it.

Christian Rodwell  33:32  

Yeah. And didn't obviously you're a huge fan of personal development. And then money mindset. That's something I guess is life long learning. Right? That always continues, doesn't it? It's Oh, yeah. Important.

Speaker 4  33:44  

Oh, yeah. And you know, the problems never go away. They just the the number of zeros at the end of the problem gets more, you know, so we've had some really interesting times since we started the business where I've had to, like we're old patterns have started to come out again, you know, like I abdicated responsibility around money. I'm like, you know, I'm a bit of a, I don't not care about it, I do but my default is, it's all going to be fine. Let's just help people, it's going to be fine. And if I'm not regularly in disciplined fashion, looking at my forecasting, looking at my cash flow, looking at the historic p&l and things we've had times when we've we've gone off the rails, never so bad that we couldn't recover it. You know, we can always see it coming three months in advance, because I got good at that very, very early on, thank God, but those old patterns keep coming out. And it's almost just like, the bigger the numbers get, the further I've got to dig in and learn around it.

Christian Rodwell  34:39  

And you think subconsciously that might be from that childhood experience. Oh,

Speaker 4  34:43  

absolutely. I absolutely know that it is from that childhood experience, you know, either of it doesn't exist, it doesn't matter. What matters is that we're kind and that we're good. You know, that's the messaging I got from mom, or otherwise, this kind of it'll be fine. It'll it'll come back and then all Oh God, oh, you know that sort of up and down feast and famine sort of norm that was built in from you know, having having dad the that side but my energy kind of almost wants to recreate, even though I know it's not helpful there's there is still that it's almost like that's that's the way business goes, it's got to go up and down and up and that works you know, it doesn't? Yeah, it doesn't. So there's, there's definitely always further to grow.

Christian Rodwell  35:27  

So of course that's obviously shaping. Now the way that you're you're having those conversations with James and Rose and is important to you that they follow in your entrepreneurial footsteps.

Speaker 4  35:37  

I don't mind if they want to start a business or not. To be perfectly honest, I think entrepreneurship, it's not easy. For me, it's a spiritual pursuit where I'm constantly having to look at myself and grow and have self inquiry, you've got to be a self motivated and a self starter and believe in yourself. And I don't think it's the only way to wealth, I absolutely want them to be financially responsible. But I do powerfully believe that it doesn't matter how much you earn, or whether it's by a job or by running your own business. It's what you do with what you earn. That is where wealth is created, you know, it's how you manage that money. I always think of it as three phases, right? There's the make the Manage and the Multiply, and the Manage and the multiply, I hope that both of my kids have got that scan by the time they finish school. Because if Rosie wants to be a pop star, the only thing that you know is going to stop her from being a pop star is that she feels like she's got to earn money to put food on the table. But if she's got property investments, and some stocks and shares that she's satisfied with and that are solid enough to spin off enough money to keep a 20 year old going, she can go after her dreams as a pop star. So, for me, that's what I wish I'd learned earlier is wealth building is not sexy. Entrepreneurship is very sexy and fun, you know, like make it the make phase can be incredibly powerful and rewarding and amazing. And you know, emotionally beneficial. Certainly, for me, it is what you do with your energy for money, but the Manage and the multiply really are pretty fucking boring. And if they can have that handled, then they can do whatever they like, you're gonna make face because it won't matter as much.

Christian Rodwell  37:15  

Joanna has been fascinating speaking with you today, as always, really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for sharing your your insights into your family life and your own business. And I really look forward to speaking to you again soon.

Speaker 4  37:27  

Thank you for having me, Christian. And I really hope everyone who's listening, this journey goes very well.

Christian Rodwell  37:31  

And let me actually not forget to just point people in the direction of where they can go and find out more about you, Joanna, where online if they want to follow and watch some of your videos.

Speaker 4  37:41  

Yeah, sure. Well, on most social media, I'm Dr. Joanna Mountain, Dr. Joanna Martin, or just Joanna Martin, you'll you'll find me and my organisation, the community of women we were speaking about earlier is called one of many. So our website is one of many.co.uk. And we'd love to meet the women in your community, or the wives, mothers, sisters of the fellas in your community, send them our way, and we shall make them wonderful humans.

Christian Rodwell  38:04  

Thanks, look around us fixing, fixing Thank you. Always enjoy speaking to Joanna, she had some really, really good stories there. And we can talk about those in a second Kevin. But before we do that, we've had some more reviews in and take a second just head to Trustpilot. And read out a review from Joshua who says I love this podcast, it is a great point of information, I very much respect their ethos around wealth. And they are incredibly generous with the info that they share.

Speaker 3  38:35  

Very good. And like you mentioned in the last podcast was that people don't have the time for review. And I've time to write words, take a moment to write a few words, please mean the world to us. But if you choose not to, we're just too busy to do that. Then they can leave a Spotify review on

Christian Rodwell  38:52  

your Spotify or iTunes. So if you're on either of those platforms, Apple podcast or Spotify, just head to wealth, talk to the main podcast page. And you'll see the opportunity just to click give us a five star rating. And again, the more ratings we can get, the more the algorithms will share our podcast with other people and we'll build this community and build this mission.

Speaker 3  39:14  

Absolutely. Well, thank you if you choose to do that. And we're grateful for Joshua for doing that as well. So what do you want to start off with Joanna, I noticed you didn't mention the doctor thing so much today. Because she previously had a calling didn't she as a as a genuine medical doctor, but it just wasn't a natural fit. And she seems a real woman of passion and purpose and a sense of she needs to be fulfilled in what she's doing. And that is a double edged sword, isn't it? On the one hand, it's brilliant, because you're pursuing a passion. But on the other hand, if you sometimes don't have the necessary training and how to turn that into a business, it can it can mean the challenge along the way which he openly admits to and glad that you successfully navigated that. Yeah, absolutely.

Christian Rodwell  39:57  

Ya know, we touched on it Joanna's initial years as a doctor, back in Australia in the first podcast episode we did. But I think there was some time ago now. And a focus obviously now is on building her community. You talked about dreaming big there. That was one of lessons. I think that came through early on as well with James and rose that they're at that age where they're still dreaming of being pop stars and inventors. And and that's good, right? You've got to encourage finding your passion and your purpose. That's one of the principles, of course that we've laid down in the family's programme, but encouraging and nurturing that at an early age. But if you can crossover passion with profit, then well, that's ideal.

Speaker 3  40:39  

Well, absolutely right. And I think we talk about that as well, passion and purpose and trying to make sure that as Ken Robinson said in his fantastic TED talk, you know, creativity is just beautiful and wonderful to see no young people, but it seems to get educated out to them as they as they get older. But it's nice to see that our two children are so distinctly different and unique. And it's just great to hear those, how she's applying that and what she's learning from them. And including I love that story of a daughter saying, No, now, Mom, calm down. You know, Bree, you've heard breed two sounds like a great family.

Christian Rodwell  41:20  

Yeah, you can definitely picture that on. And I've been asking our guests over the last episodes when we've been talking about families, how they're introducing pocket money with Joanna, she said that they waited until James, their first son was at an age where he started to want things. And he was loving Lego. So he wanted the Batman set. And they use that as an opportunity to introduce the secrets of money, which I thought was really cool. And some of those secrets that Joanna shared, there was adding value, which is money goes to people who help people. And then another secret was money stays with people who look after it. And then the secret around contribution was money likes to flow. And that makes it fun. And we talked about how important it is to make the conversations enjoyable and to create experiences around them as well.

Speaker 3  42:09  

Yeah, and these are principles, which really simplify things. So you don't have to get complicated. You don't have to go into the depths of financial products or taxation or anything complex talk about money flows, in the same way as we use the analogy of planting seeds. I mean, that's an easy and textual analogy, isn't it for children to get so things flowing, seeds, being nurtured and planted are all part of how you choose to give the context to your own children. And the younger they are, the greater the power of your influence, because you've got that influence for longer. And there's so much evidence is there not that those formative years, those ones where they're observing, and participating in games, and I know, she talked about games, too, but they're just critical times. In the habit forming stages of a child's early life,

Christian Rodwell  43:00  

we've created the family wealth declaration, you can download a copy of that again, link in today's show notes, but we'll be sharing,

Unknown Speaker  43:08  

Chris, you're going to be they're going to be full to the brim

Christian Rodwell  43:10  

going and running out of room in the show notes this week. But Joanna talked about the set of family values that they have. And we talk about where are these conversations being had? Are they around the dinner table? Are they in the car? They come in different places, of course, but with Joanna, they've really got this set of principles where they discuss them over dinner, and they say where and how have you demonstrated these values, and they reward with pocket money based on demonstrating the values, which is a nice way of doing it.

Speaker 3  43:40  

I hadn't seen that, particularly with the idea of having those values, almost like our declaration, really, that's a proper document, you can seal it, you can laminate it, she's done. And I think it's lovely to talk about those things around the dinner table. I passionately believe that you're feeding our children anyway. So why not feed their mind and feed their bodies think it's a healthy thing to do. And why not do that? Because you've got them there. Anyway, it is quiet time for you. And it's a real opportunity to do that. That's definitely how I did it. And I encourage that, and I do that even today are different people do in different ways. Like you mentioned the car. That's a university, isn't it on the move, so why not feed their minds there to sometimes listen to podcasts. We've heard that and, and having conversations tooing and froing very interesting, the way people do it. I love those little nuggets that will probably inspire another parent to try that I've even heard of parents thinking about this idea that money is so less visible these days, that they're introducing the idea of pocket money in a pay packet, you know, so there's got that sensory opening, a pay packet taking money out and then having the jars to put money in. So there's a physical touching and a feeling and a sensing about money is about rather than, well, where does money come from, you know, mommy's purse, Daddy's wallet, or I tap it. And it magically appears, you know, the, those are the critical distinctions that I think are important to make. When you're talking about children as young as Joanna's,

Christian Rodwell  45:15  

yeah, well, that takes me back to my paper round days, I used to love getting the little brown envelope on the first time because my seven quid or whatever it was in there. Another thing is, of course, addressing the problems that exist in today's age for our young generation has many problems. We've talked about some of them, one of them is student debt. Joanna's take on it, and Greg, her husband is that they will fund their children's education, but they won't fund their life. I think that's a fair point. And of course, others will have different opinions and ways of approaching this, but that's how they want to do it. Student debt, though, is a is a big issue, and one that I think we'll be diving into deeper, you know, in the future.

Speaker 3  45:53  

Yeah. And, and student debt is going to rise, it's not going to get less. So Joanna mentioned that. In her growing up, she didn't have to pay for that education. In fact, there was a contribution. And likewise, my time at university wasn't paid for, or at least the education me or my family didn't need to pay for. But like many students, we may include we had jobs to kind of cover our living expenses, and so on. But that's getting even more complex these days, isn't it? So I like the idea, though, she shared of wanting to encourage work, and whether that work is paid for terms of a job or whether it's paid for in terms of being an entrepreneur, it's very difficult to be an entrepreneur very early. So just understanding where value comes from, I think is an important consideration. And what I would share is, I believe a job is like playing in a team. And the more that you can be more valuable to the team. And you're seeing yourself as part of the team with a minimum expectation that somebody wants you to play on another team because the person whose team you're leaving, right, you are glowing reference. If you can get to that position, then it means you're conscientiously playing and working, looking to escalate yourself to a higher level than just simply turning up getting your seven quid in your pay packet and then going home my job would it be difficult in your day on a paper round to to be a great team player. But interestingly enough, my father's my wife's father, sorry, we went to see him recently on a trip up to the northeast. He's old man now. And he was lamenting the fact that they had a paperboy used to stop and have a chat with him. You know, and now that's all gone. You know, they don't have that anymore. And he was saying that they missed that. So that young person took the time and energy to have a chat with an old geezer I thought that was a nice thing.

Christian Rodwell  47:46  

Yeah, touching on the principle of participation, the changes of technologies, some of these things that are not the same as they were and some others that are better than they were. That's life. Right.

Speaker 3  47:57  

Certainly dangers, you touched on that with YouTube, there's dangers of scamming, we know is definitely one of the problems we seeing. And that anxiety, because you're, you're seeing the comparison you talked about. But she talked about schools, at some of the children around the place where she lives and the school that they go to fabulously wealthy, and maybe they have a birthday party with a pony involved, you know, and if you don't have that kind of wherewithal, you don't want your children to have an expectation that's way outside of the financial sphere that you're in. And I think it's important then that comparison economics doesn't take over. You do with peer to peer pressure, but it's also easy to do in technology, you can see what people have achieved. There's a perverse logic that sometimes we actually have the way I'll touch on very briefly, if I may, that when you seeing somebody doing extraordinarily well, you think it's easy. But on the other hand, we've seen in our own wealth builder Academy programme that, Chris sometimes when they start, they see somebody racing ahead, and they feel bad, they feel guilty that they're not making progress, yet. Each person's journey and wealth is very different and very unique. And that's sometimes a difficult one for grownups to get their head around.

Christian Rodwell  49:08  

Absolutely. Yeah. Many psychological fears coming in there. Growing up conversations about money, we're not commonplace in Joanna's household. I think she openly shared that some of that mindset has followed through into later life and the importance of really cultivating a strong positive mindset around money because those formative years you talked about earlier, Kevin up to the age of seven those influences at home or with you for life, if you can't break those habits as you get older,

Speaker 3  49:39  

yet, it's almost like view imagine a a child I wouldn't want to liken them to a computer but they sort of are on they there. They come into the world on programmed and then they get programmed. And the earlier you can programme programming good habits, the easier it is for them to continue those habits forward. So they build and they grow and get stronger, the more difficult All it is is to unwind or to rewind or to rewire habits that have been poorly formed. And everybody's life is different in terms of how their parents interact with them, my parents and talk about money, never knew anything about how that felt until it was much later when my dad actually got into business. And then he started talking about it, because he was getting excited about stuff. And I remember that feeling. But yeah, money is a is a subject that needs to be on the to do list, not on the taboo list. So it's really important to do that. And I think Joanna has noted that and it seems to be doing an outstanding job with what she's doing and how she's they're conscientiously doing its intention isn't, it's on purpose. And I can't see that that will be anything other than positive for two young ones

Christian Rodwell  50:46  

in date. And the last words they're about, it's not how much they earn, it's what they do with that money and make sure it's going to go causes but also, that money's working hard to make more money and not trading time for money. So being financially responsible, was the word that she is there?

Speaker 3  51:05  

Well, I think that's a good outcome, isn't it, you'd be happy if you're certain, you know, when you wave off your kids, finally, you're calling them kids when let's say they get to choose to do college, university or whatever they do. And you see them there. And you realise they're responsible enough not to be succumbing to bank sales tactics to get them into debt, wearing the, you know, I've got a credit score on my back, waiting for someone to be interacting with a view to making profit, there's so much self interest, when young adults start off in life, that if you've got responsible children, then they'll become responsible adults, too. And I think that's great.

Christian Rodwell  51:45  

Yeah. So thank you, again, to Joanna for taking time out sharing all of those lessons with us today. Hope you enjoyed listening to those. Please do share feedback. Let Kevin and I know that you're enjoying these conversations around money around families. It's a big mission, we announced on Episode 200, that we've been changing direction that this was really where we wanted to put our energy to not just helping the individuals to build wealth, but help the entire family, parents, grandparents and children.

Speaker 3  52:13  

Yes, and we'll get our fair share of, of people across the age divide Chris, and we want to do that. And I just want to make an extra special note to say thank you to Joanna because the humility it takes to share your lessons. You know, sometimes being a little vulnerable, too, I think is something that's worthy of being appreciated. And I'd like to thank you for doing that. Because it takes a rare person to want to give of themselves, not just a good lessons, but also the things they've learned along the way. And I think that's great.

Christian Rodwell  52:44  

Final words. Don't forget to register for next week's families launch, head to wealth builders.co.uk forward slash families launch all one word, and you'll be able to register free event choose the lunchtime all evening session, Kevin and I will be there we'll be showing you everything that we put together for the families programme, and how you can join us as a founder member, special special opportunity do not miss it. Kevin, you and I will be back Same time, same place next week.

Unknown Speaker  53:12  

We will indeed and until then my friend see you.

Speaker 1  53:18  

We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/membership