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Property, Women in Business

Understanding Commercial Property Investing w/ Kirsty Darkins

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Unknown Speaker  0:01  

The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.

Christian Rodwell  0:19  

Welcome to Episode 165 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell and membership director for wealth builders. And I'm joined today by our founder Mr. Kevin Whalen. Hello, Kevin.

Unknown Speaker  0:28  

Hi, Chris. Good to be with you again. Yesterday, you flick in a bit of the rust off from last time.

Christian Rodwell  0:33  

Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Yes. So we're excited because we have got our financial storm webinar tonight. So if you're listening to this podcast on the day of release, which is Wednesday, the 14th of September, and you haven't yet registered for the webinar, that will be starting at 7:30pm. Tonight, please do join us. And we'll put a link in the show notes. But Kevin, just want to share a little bit about what the webinars are all about.

Unknown Speaker  0:57  

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm very excited about it. Because you know, if you look around the world, all you seeing is doom and gloom and language of inflation and recessions. And it's happening all over the world. And there's nothing we can do about it, we all should shrink into our little shells and hide. But of course, if you get the right education, you get the right. Distinctions made from from people who recognise that changes always bring opportunities to serve people always bring opportunities to build creativity, and get value from that creativity, and then be in a community of uplifting people. Rather than listening to the news and feeling like you're being downtrodden and downbeat, that's just the wrong thing. So we're so excited about sharing, and not just, you know, little things, but actionable steps that we hope will make people 1000s In the context of their wealth, building life, so things they can genuinely do, from examples of people who've done it, and build a community where as we regrow that special community of people who are finding new ways to create value in the current storm, and sharing that then it's something you can immediately see and copy and create value for yourself. So it's not just what we're doing on the webinar, is that community that we're going to be building of enlightened committed, enthusiastic people determined to build their wealth, indeed, as our guest today, was determined to build her wealth having spent many years in employment building the wealth of the employer.

Christian Rodwell  2:43  

Absolutely, yes. Our guest today is Kirsty Dawkins, who is an expert when it comes to all things commercial property, and as you say, you know, long background in the industry and then realising that she can turn all of that experience into into a business, which is what she does now. Kirsty is good friend, wealth builders. Great Teacher. So let's not wait around. Let's head on to our conversation with Kirsty Dawkins. Kirsty welcomes wealth talk today.

Unknown Speaker  3:12  

Thanks, Christian. Nice to be here.

Christian Rodwell  3:13  

Yeah, very nice to have you with us and Kirsty, many of our listeners will already be familiar with you. You're a chartered commercial property surveyor, you're also a commercial property investor. And you're using all of your knowledge now to help other people start building and growing their own commercial property portfolio. So we're going to be talking all about this today. But why don't you just give a little bit of your background and where did it all begin for you?

Unknown Speaker  3:37  

Well, it all began at a little place called anything learned in Nottingham in 1999. So that was my first surveying job, although I wasn't going to be a surveyor at the time I went to do marketing, fell in love with property and surveying and then went back to university and trained as a surveyor. So that's where it all started for me. And then I spent my corporate career with the big guys like boots and CBRE and Hammerson doing loads of massively interesting things, making lots of people lots of money, and then sat there going, Wow, am I doing this for myself? I don't understand this. I've got all this knowledge. So yes, six, just over six years ago, I thought, actually, you know what, it's time to do this for myself and chart my own path. So I left corporate setup, my own consultancy, started building my own portfolios. And the rest is history, as they say,

Christian Rodwell  4:28  

Yeah. And, you know, we know that everyone who works with you loves working with you. They can't speak highly enough if you know, the support and obviously the knowledge that you're able to impart with them. And I guess let's just strip it back for people listening right now, who perhaps not 100% clear as to what defines a commercial property. Can you just explain what the different types are?

Unknown Speaker  4:49  

Yeah, so commercial property essentially has a business tendency. So that's the definition of a commercial property. The occupier is a business. And you've got different sectors within commercial so are the three key sectors are retail and leisure, offices, and industrial. And then there's lots of other very specialist sectors like health care and cold storage and data centres and all that kind of thing. But when where we really focus as private investors is on the three key sectors that I just outlined there.

Christian Rodwell  5:20  

Okay, and I guess, you know, we should understand what are the benefits, you know, what makes commercial property and attractive investment over residential?

Unknown Speaker  5:30  

Yeah, so I always say that even if you love residential, you know, you really know what you're doing, everyone should have at least one commercial property, because there are quite a lot of tax benefits to investing in commercial that you can't achieve through residential. So it's not always the place I start, but I think for your community, that's quite attractive. So you can claim capital allowances from commercial properties, which means you get to offset either your income tax or your corporation tax, depending how you're investing, you can also invest your pension directly into commercial property, which you can't do with residential, so it gives you another funding stream. And the main benefits are that it's a lot more hands off. So you don't have the obligations as a landlord that you have in residential. So a lot of people choose to diversify into commercial, because they want a more passive investment. So the landlord is not responsible for anything, the tenant is responsible for all maintenance, all compliance, the tenant pays for everything as well, even including the building insurance. So there is literally nothing to do as a commercial landlord wouldn't use tenants at your property. And it's cash flowing other than collect the rent, which is very attractive for a lot of people. It's also quite easy to get high yielding high cash flowing, multi tenanted properties. So you might only need one commercial property to hit your income goals. Whereas in residential, you'll very often need several properties to hit that income goal. So it's just less intensive, less work, fewer properties needed to hit your income goals. And you've got more time freedom is why I invest in commercial over residential.

Christian Rodwell  7:11  

Yeah, and there's some very key points, Kirsty, you know, we obviously work with our members, and one of the first things we do is really get clear on the numbers in terms of what they need to be financially secure. So just to cover, you know, the essential daily costs that everyone has, and that's normally three to 5000 pounds a month. And then financial independence, which typically is around about 10,000 pounds a month. And then when you work out, you know, how much money does someone have? And how much time would it take in order to get to that point, it often is obviously, way too far in the future, to be realistic. And so you have to look at alternative strategies. So this is where commercial obviously can help you get there a lot quicker.

Unknown Speaker  7:47  

Yeah, absolutely. And also, the good thing about commercial is, your gross rent is usually your net rent, aside from any cost of finance. So there are literally no cost to landlords in investing in commercial property, which is usually music to residential investors is in terms of you know, well what about this? Or what about note tenant pays? No, the tenant pays no, the tenant pays, as long as the leases are written correctly. So that's your due diligence. Yeah, it's a very straightforward strategy, once you've acquired the knowledge, you need to invest in it.

Christian Rodwell  8:19  

So we're talking now, September 2020. Code, like the news is full of recession, looming of interest rates of doom and gloom. In fact, I know someone that you know very well, Susie Carter, we interviewed Susie, right, during the pandemic, and Susie was saying about actually the opportunities that are going to be out there. So, you know, how did how did you weather the pandemic, first and foremost? And then, you know, moving into these troubled times ahead, you know, how's your own portfolio managing and you know, dealing with that?

Unknown Speaker  8:49  

Yeah, so how we weathered the pandemic was to two key ways really, the first was having the right tenant mix in the first place. And having done really good due diligence on our tenants, before we bought properties, or before we let units to them. So most of our portfolio is high street, retail and office. We didn't have any rent arrears and we didn't lose any tenants during the whole of COVID. And that is because all of our tenants are convenience and service led, either retailers or professional service officers. They're smaller businesses, they're independent. We have relationships with them, the locations that we invest in are also sustainable and strong. So if you know what criteria to use, you need to niche in terms of your location. So we weathered COVID really well. The thing that did have an impact was the commercial lending market more or less collapsing. During COVID All the lenders took fright and weren't really lending on retail and office or if they were it was extremely low loan to value really high interest rates. And so our strategy going before COVID and aim was to buy add value via asset management or development and then hold and refinance. So we had to change our strategy, we had to pivot our exit, so we pivoted our exit to flip and decided to build our own bank instead. So we spent the last two years selling assets that we've added value to buying and selling trading effectively, and built our own bank. So now we don't need the lenders. And so that's what we did during COVID. And it's worked really well. And then going into recession. Now. I'm always really excited when this happens as an investor, and I think any experienced property investor is because as long as you are making informed decisions, and you are doing your due diligence, and clearly you might, you should be building a bit more fat in than you usually would to cope with any uncertainty, there's always massive opportunity in a recession. So what we should be doing is putting ourselves in a cash rich position to pick up those opportunities. And getting out there and looking at this time is a very different recession that's coming. It's not a credit led recession. So there's still a waste of money in the market. Agents are desperate to meet their fee quotas. They haven't met their fee quotas in the commercial market yet this year, because supply was slow. At the beginning of the year, sellers are a lot more motivated and a lot more realistic. I've had some really good examples just in the last couple of weeks of phone calls from agents going, okay, they're ready to talk to you about your level of offer now. Okay, good. I thought there would be. And that's really starting to happen now. So there's a lot of opportunity, if you know where to look. And yes, obviously, the caution is that you must be informed and you must do you know, bank grade due diligence on your tenants. But as long as you do that, there's a lot of opportunity. It's quite exciting.

Christian Rodwell  11:52  

Yeah, yeah. And you mentioning a lot of things that are in our wheel of wealth, which is our process, we teach our members, which begins with education, right? So you have to know what you're doing. And, again, for someone listening now, perhaps who's, you know, quite experienced in residential, you know, they have a portfolio, they may be thinking, cause a big step to commercial riders have no idea, where do I start? Where do I begin, you know, how big a step is it,

Unknown Speaker  12:20  

it's not really that big a step, it's like, choosing a different residential strategies. So a lot of people start with beitler, then they might move to something like HMO or they might do service accommodation. Or they might start scaling into bigger developments when they've done some small refurbs. on Vita, let's they might start doing some commercial conversions. So it's just another strategy at the end of the day that you need to acquire the right knowledge and contacts to do. And it's very possible for private investors to enter the commercial market, it's not only for the League of the big institutional investors and pension funds and, and developers, you know, that's one end of the market. But the sub 2 million end of the market is where we're starting. And you can start with as little as 100,000. If you're up in the Midlands, and the North probably need 300 If you're in the south, but you know, it's very accessible in terms of that starting point, that entry level.

Christian Rodwell  13:18  

Yeah, a lot less competition there. Yeah, the other thing, I guess, is time, this is the thing we're all shortage of, we're all looking for more of how much time would someone need to dedicate towards, you know, finding commercial property. And I guess this is moving on to the topic of sourcing the deals and just how to summon approach that?

Unknown Speaker  13:39  

Well, initially, you'll need a lot of time, because the key, the thing that's critical to sourcing commercial property are your commercial agent relationships. So 50% or more of commercial property never hits the market, because we as commercial agents are quite lazy. And so we'll get our fees the quickest way possible, which means we just go direct to investors we already know. And a lot of property just doesn't come to the market. So you have to get out there and build the commercial agent relationships in your investment patch, that's absolutely key. So setting up your systems, building those relationships to start with, you're going to need to put quite a lot of legwork in and quite a lot of time. But then once you've set up your system and your relationships, and you're just checking in, and the agents are feeding you deals and your deal making I spent if I'm in acquisition mode, I spend around 10 hours a week, if I'm seriously trying to build my deal pipeline, and that's all I need. That's all I need to spend. You shouldn't really be able to do it in five hours a week if you've got your systems set up and built your relationships.

Christian Rodwell  14:45  

Yeah, and of course, this is everything that you teach your students now Kirsty tell us a bit more about like how how do you work with people and what are some of the programmes that you've now created?

Unknown Speaker  14:56  

Yeah, so I am in the first lockdown I created My online masterclass mostly sewer occupy myself to be honest, but because a lot of people have been asking, Well, where can I find more information? So it's an eight module online masterclass, that gives you all the fundamental information you need to understand to start investing in commercial property. And the result is that you'll decide on what strategy is right for you, within commercial, because just like residential, there's multiple different strategies in commercial, and it will depend what your goals are, and what your starting point is, on what strategy is right for you. So that's the masterclass. And then if people feel a lot of people do that, and then feel that they still need some support, they still need the confidence of someone behind them while they're making decisions for the first time in commercial. So I run a group mentoring programme. So maximum of 10 people in the group, so small group mentoring on a 12 month basis, where I mentored them through 12 months. And by the end of the 12 months, everybody's got at least one property offers on the table built their agent relationships, fully confident in doing their due diligence, and they're ready to be out in the commercial market, building their portfolio,

Christian Rodwell  16:11  

ya know, fantastic. And as I said at the beginning, you know, we hear such great feedback from everyone that works with you. So very, very good. One thing that I found interesting, we were speaking just before we started recording, Kirsty was saying about the interest rate rises and the difference between the residential and the commercial market. Can you just explain a bit more?

Unknown Speaker  16:30  

Yeah, well, so what happened during a pandemic is that commercial mortgage interest rates rocketed. So they just because the level of risk and uncertainty with all the restrictions for businesses, the lenders just went, we need to protect ourselves. So the rates went up. Now, the commercial rates are always higher anyway, they're usually around 5% for a new commercial investor. But what's actually happening right now is that the commercial lending rates are coming down, while the residential lending rates are going up. And that is because the restrictions have ended, businesses have weathered a two year storm, they've mostly put themselves in a very strong, efficient, cash positive position. And so lenders are actually going well, yeah, there's there's recession coming. But actually, businesses are in rude health right now, generally. And generally, the government is supporting the sectors that need the support when they need it. So there is likely to be some support for leisure and hospitality over the next few months is common thought within the industry. So yeah, commercial interest rates have actually come down from around 6.25 6.5, down to the five 5.15%. So they're about at parity with where residential rates are going at the moment, but commercial rates are usually around 5%. Anyway, so there's no, there's no real drama in the commercial lending market. At the moment, what's actually happening is loan to values are increasing. After being reduced during COVID, there's a bit more confidence, there's still not as many lenders lending, still working with the specialist lenders, but the commercial lending market is actually coming back at a time when the residential lending market is restricted.

Christian Rodwell  18:21  

Now, some people might be thinking Kirstie High Street is on its way out. Everyone's working from home now. So offices, you know, not not not as required as they perhaps used to be. So where are you seeing the changes and the opportunities in those areas?

Unknown Speaker  18:36  

Oh, you know, what I always say is, is that a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. So I have been investing in the High Street, either for clients or for myself and officers for the last 22 years. I've made a living out of it for 22 years, even though it's apparently been dying for 15. So it's always evolving, it's not dying, it's evolving, is changing with our habits. So we're causing the change. So we need to get really interested in our own habits like what what are we demanding? How do we shop? Where do we want to work? What's happening? What do businesses need, and serve those needs? So it's very location specific. That's the thing. That's the key point about high street and offices. Location is absolutely King. So you have to Nish to get these strategies, right, you have to get the right locations. Once you're in the right locations, it's about the tenants and your tenant mix. So you're going for convenience and service lead tenants on the high street, which means opticians, hairdressers, convenience stores, funeral care, pharmacies, take aways, all the things that people people don't stop needing, and don't stop servicing and professional services as well. And then in offices, it's a very interesting time. There's a lot happening. Most occupiers are looking for more flexible terms and that doesn't Balance very well with an investor's trying to get your capital value out. So you've got to pivot your strategy in terms of what's important. Is it cash flow? Or is it capital value, because if it's capital value, then you need to think differently about how you invest in officers. But most businesses have recognised that they can't run their business with a collaborative team without them connecting with each other at some points, and most businesses are running a hybrid model. And also what's become very important in offices is facilities and wellness. And so they all need actually more space, not for desks, but just for breakout areas, gyms, facilities, you know that so actually, a lot of businesses are using the same amount of space, but they're using the space differently. So that's quite an interesting development as well.

Christian Rodwell  20:51  

Yeah, nowadays. And in terms of adding value, again, looking at the differences between perhaps residential and commercial, you know, residential, typically, you're looking at refurbs to add the value additional space, you could be splitting titles, how does that differ in commercial in terms of the amount of work that's involved? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  21:09  

so obviously, you can, you can do some development in commercial, but you don't have to do physical development works to add value, which is what a lot of investors get excited about. So we focus very much on asset management, which means working with tenants, and leases. So our buying strategy is to buy properties where there are short leases, because all your value in commercial property is in the security of your income stream, which means the length of your lease and the strength of your tenant. So if you can buy properties, which are talented with short leases, and then renew those leases, you add a lot of value just by doing the paper exercises of renewing the leases, you could buy vacant property and let him vacant space, that's an easy way to double your value overnight. Because the value is all in security of income. And when there is no income, it's only worth what you've decided it's worth paying for it. Or you can live rent, so you can remove tenant breaks, you could split up bigger units into smaller units. So you need to serve the current market demand rather than what there was previously. And you can add value as well through commercialising commercial assets. So carparking advertising as lots of different ways that you can add some extra value other than actually letting the units to business tenants. So there's lots of ways to add value to commercial property that don't involve physical development work.

Christian Rodwell  22:33  

Yeah, yeah. When it comes to wealth building, the higher cash flow and the security of that, you know, predictable recurring income is obviously one of the main things we focus on. And I think you've given us some great examples today, Kirsty of how that can be achieved through commercial. Is there any final words of advice or things you'd like to share with our listeners?

Unknown Speaker  22:54  

I think, you know, if you're interested in commercial, then just find somewhere that you can find, find out more, find some investors who are already doing it, and start defining what strategies are possible. And what's right for you and your goals.

Christian Rodwell  23:09  

Yeah, and you also do some on site days? And do you have any of those coming up at all? Kirsty?

Unknown Speaker  23:15  

Yeah, we do. So myself and my business partner, John Ballard, who is a builder, project manager, we tend to do mixed use commercial developments. And we run half day on site days for groups of 10 to 12 investors at a time, we've got one coming up on the 28th of September, in Birmingham. If anybody's interested in joining, it's only 100 pounds to attend, just to cover our costs. And we spend four hours with you, we give you a full in depth case study of the project that we're currently doing. We talk about all the different commercial strategies and give you some case studies just to really get your juices flowing on what's possible. And then we give you an hour to an hour and a half to just pick our brains with the other investors to get all your questions, your burning questions about well, how could I do commercial property? Or how does this work? Or what about that? And the idea is that you go away, knowing what your next step in commercial property is or not, it might not be for you.

Christian Rodwell  24:11  

Yeah, that sounds like an amazing opportunity. So please do share the links and we'll make sure those are in the show notes for anyone that wants to click on that and come along and say hello in face. So, Kirsty, thanks so much for sharing all of your amazing experience and knowledge with us today. And yeah, we look forward to catching up again very soon.

Unknown Speaker  24:28  

All right. Good to talk to you, Christian. Thank you.

Christian Rodwell  24:32  

Great insights there from Kirsty and lots for us to discuss, Kevin. Before we do that, let's pull out one of our reviews from the last seven days or so on Trustpilot and this one is from David who says turning my numerous pension pots into a SAS was the best bit of retirement planning. I've done all thanks to wealth builders since 2018. My SAS has outperformed the various pension funds where the funds resided every single year and the funds Now mine, not simply belonging to the pension scheme that has the obligation to pay me a proportion of what they earn each year from investing the principal. And because they are my pension pot, they will remain available to my dependents when I am my wife, if diet, had I left it with the pension corporations, they would retain the principal plus residual accrued enhancements. Thank you wealth builders. And thank you, Kevin.

Unknown Speaker  25:23  

Well, that's a nice one. I mean, the language was slightly complex, but you get the point. I mean, actually, the way you frame that I thought was rather interesting, the obligation of the company to pay me a proportion. I mean, like, it's like, paying your taxes, isn't it, you know, you, you earn a proportion. And we'll we'll be covering taxes in some detail over the course of how you can save taxes, how you can reduce your tax bill, fundamentally, because, you know, in state of economy, like we've got, you know, we're gonna have challenges with tax costs, we know, it's an all pervasive charge. But this proportionate benefit of somebody giving you a proportion of what you're entitled to, is just not right, when it comes to you having your own pension and wanting to do better with it. And of course, Kirstie talks about that doesn't she as well, she mentioned that commercial property is one of those assets, which is such a great bedfellow, for pension investing, because you can use that money, you can own that commercial property, you can get the rental income, you can get the capital value, you can control and own that, and you don't have a fortune in fees to pay. In fact, the opposite is true. Because as she very elegantly and eloquently explained that for what we call an fri lease, or a full repairing, and insuring lease, it's the tenant, who has the obligation to repair the property, to insure the property, and to meet all the bills and costs of operating the property. So it's really a great way to build your wealth, and as I say, a really, really good fit for those people who are taking control of their pensions as well, Chris,

Christian Rodwell  27:12  

yes, absolutely. And we teach our members obviously, the process for any strategy, which is turning the wheel of wealth. And just for those listeners who perhaps haven't, haven't come across that yet, that concepts then definitely point towards one of our earlier episodes where we talk through the wheel of wealth, but it always begins with education. And of course, now, Kirsty is sharing her knowledge in different ways in terms of education for her students, and then it's having the right support around you. And of course, the right connections, then leading to due diligence. And finally, Guided Action and due diligence came up a couple of times, of course, such a key part of the process. Kevin, sometimes it's skipped over. But obviously, you know, critical wealth dynamics obviously comes in here as well.

Unknown Speaker  27:57  

Yes, well, we had a call with one of our members today didn't wait. And we talked about the wealth dynamics in play there. And sometimes, you know, what dynamics and due diligence is a bit of a double edged sword in some respects, Chris, I mean, it's absolutely critical. And it's needed, because there is no such thing as a risk free investment. I mean, life is not risk free. So you've got to be prepared to look at the pros and cons and do due diligence. But of course, some people, as you say, skip it, those people who their natural tendencies to make good calls and make sort of big picture type decisions. And some people get over analytical. And they will make any decision until the due diligence is absolutely perfect, which you can never be because there has to be a con, there has to be a negative in order to get the higher returns, that often this due diligence will reveal that what are the benefits, but you've got to take some of the risks that goes with that, but it's understanding that and documenting that. And mitigating that is the very core of that due diligence process we we share and help people to put in play to reduce the risk as much as is possible to do.

Christian Rodwell  29:13  

Yes, and part of that due diligence that Cassie talked about there with her own portfolio was making sure that she really understood the the tenant types and having a good mix. And we've seen that in, in previous conversations we've had on the podcast, most notably, Luke spikes, who was on Episode 136, that was all about reinventing the High Street and Luke was seeing the opportunities now of people wanting more flexible working so you know, co working space, which he obviously is now focusing on.

Unknown Speaker  29:44  

It was very interesting to me, Chris, you know, you asked the question about, I know you were playing devil's advocate, you were saying or the high street is dead, you know, almost you were posing the question and knowing that that the her answer was going to be much more in depth than that. And she came back right at you didn't change your, well, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. She's absolutely right. Not aimed at you, but aimed at the naysayers who will always find a reason not to do something. But she made a really great point that it's not that things have fundamentally changed forever, things have changed. And they've evolved, they're different. And you have to be pragmatic, to look at those differences. And find your niche, like anything in wealth, you find your niche. And I think I liked hers, which was looking for opportunities and property where the leases short. And recognising that one of the easiest ways to add value is then to change the terms of the lease. And if you get a longer lease, and you get a good tenant, a covenant, in other words, a promise, and you combine the two, then those things are what ultimately deems or creates the value of a commercial property. So and that's definitely her area of expertise.

Christian Rodwell  30:59  

Absolutely. So yeah, I think it really helps us to see that commercial, like any strategy is not something beyond the reach. You know, some people might think it sounds complex, but with the right education, the right support the right connections, and it's a strategy that can work for anyone.

Unknown Speaker  31:17  

Yeah, and we had a call, remember which one it was. But it wasn't that long ago, Chris, when we talked about Title splitting, and how you can take a property and you could just Kirsty made reference to kind of changing the usage and keeping the space the same, but just changing the dynamic of the space. And I think we wasn't that long ago, we were talking about Title splitting, and how you can create more value from splitting the title. So a combination of space plus legals is another way to do it. And again, not beyond the skill set of people who are immersing themselves with the right connections in the wealth builder, sort of circle of influence of the team of people who we know, who are outstanding in their own field. And I'm sure, for anybody who's interested in Title splitting, you can create a link in the show notes for that as well.

Christian Rodwell  32:09  

I certainly will. That was an interview with Harriet Dunn. And yeah, we'll put the link for that in today's show notes. And, of course, you know, at wealth builders, we take pride in our trusty partners, it's something we're constantly working on, to, to be connected to all the very best people out there. building wealth, and benefits for our members of obviously, being part of our community is that we can make those introductions to for them.

Unknown Speaker  32:35  

Yeah, that's right. And we never tire with that. And we're constantly looking to build a big black book of really great people. It's almost like a series of concentric circles, I would say, Chris, for a visual, you know, I'm the visual person here. So we've got kind of wealth builders at the core, we deliver the core values, the core principles, the nine step roadmap, the the wheel of wealth, all those really critical things that you must do if you're trying to build wealth properly. But then it didn't stop there. You know, outside of that a wider circle would be those who provide great education and a more specific niche in every different pillar, there'll be somebody who's got that unique skill set, sometimes we deliver that education, Chris, but often, we defer to experts, but like a GP, referring to a specialist. And then beyond that the very, very niche providers, and she talked about one of those, which was capital allowances, of course, which is a taxable benefit, that often can be claimed for owners of commercial property. And that would be on the outer circle, because you don't see that every day. But you do see it every every month or so somebody's going through the process of claiming back taxes that they didn't realise they could do. So consequently, then we go beyond that into, you know, more specific tax areas or more specific legal areas where that skill set becomes even more niche. So that's essentially if you imagine wealth builders, or call going out, going out going out, constantly building a panel of outstanding and excellent people in their field, who reflect our values and our integrity.

Christian Rodwell  34:19  

Absolutely. So final reminder, if you're listening to this podcast on Wednesday, the 14th of September. Do join us tonight, Kevin and I will be on the live webinar how to navigate the financial storm ahead. We'd love to see you there. And if we don't see there, and then Kevin will be catching up Same time, same place next week.

Unknown Speaker  34:36  

We will indeed my friend and until then, so yeah.

Unknown Speaker  34:42  

We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth builders.co.uk/membership right now for free access. That's wealth builders.co.uk/ membership

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Episode summary

Commercial property surveyor, investor and mentor, Kirsty Darkins helps to create job replacing income from commercial property investments.

Commercial property investment is often overlooked by private investors but building a commercial portfolio is one of the most profitable, hands off investment strategies when you understand how.

Kirsty is passionate about helping others achieve, develop and realise their potential.

Tune in to understand from Kirsty how you can create job replacing income from commercial property investing.

Episode notes

Commercial property surveyor, investor and mentor, Kirsty Darkins helps to create job replacing income from commercial property investments. 

Commercial property investment is often overlooked by private investors but building a commercial portfolio is one of the most profitable, hands off investment strategies when you understand how.

Kirsty is passionate about helping others achieve, develop and realise their potential. 

Tune in to understand from Kirsty how you can create job replacing income from commercial property investing. 

Resources mentioned in this episode