The Family Wealth Fortress: WealthBuilders' Most Comprehensive Programme Yet

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00.108)
I think it's become quite difficult to transfer and pass on wealth in an elegant way. One of the principles was to build wealth and to build the wisdom that you used to build it to transfer that onto the next generation with minimal inheritance tax, minimizing risk, maximizing returns. How do we perpetuate that sort of bulletproof that it becomes absolutely unimpeachable? And how do you do that?

in a way that will last for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Speaker 2 (00:33.326)
Welcome to this week's episode of Wealth Talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the Memchip Director for Wealth Builders, joined today by our founder, Mr Kevin Whelan. Hello, Kevin.

It's been a vim and vigor in that introduction. Is it a new year or something? Are you refreshed, recharged and ready for action? What's going on?

It must be, yes. And many others are too, I might add, because our first podcast of this year featured Tom Johnson, one of our members who achieved financial independence. And his story definitely inspired many of our listeners because many have joined us as new members and would love to welcome all of them.

Well, welcome, welcome, welcome indeed. And it's always great when real case studies and real results influence people's decisions. you know, we can say we help people achieve security and financial independence and more besides that as we get to that. We don't really talk too much about the higher levels than independence do we? But we're going to go there today. We're going to look a bit higher.

than where we normally go. that might be an interesting share, Chris, but yeah, it's good. So I like to see new members and the beginning of the year, we always get an influx for that reason. But any time of year is a good time of year to be thinking about building and protecting the wealth that you're going to need if you want to. Wow. I mean, look what's going on in the world right now. So much uncertainty, so much challenge.

Speaker 1 (02:03.214)
I think I've ever seen it this confusing out there really. Feeling like the world pace in terms of its confusing messages has picked up so much. It's almost unbelievable. It's almost like a movie. It's like I'm in a movie, Chris. It's weird with what's going on with... I don't get political about things, rarely. Sometimes if I've got a drink in my hand, but dry January. So I'm not going to comment on Mr. Trump or anything else.

We talk of confusion there, Kevin. I should mention as well that some of our listeners may have wondered where we got to last week because there was no release. We should announce, haven't we, that we've got a new schedule for 2026 with the Wealth Talk podcast. Nearly, at least seven years, 2019 that we first started this every week. We've been there and we absolutely love the podcast. However, we've got lots going on ourselves. We will have a new schedule. We'll be dropping down to twice a month from now onwards.

and part of the reason for that is my major new project. I just can't give that weekly commitment that I could before and I'm sure you're grateful for the respite as well, Chris. I think we've touched on it before, maybe, I can't remember what we have, but we'll definitely be having some sort of hosts as well so that we can mix it up and give other people a chance. I suppose anything good

You need to freshen it up every now and again. And we've got some good things to be focused on and you've got some plans of your own, not least, you know, big wedding coming up.

certainly looming indeed. yes, lots of good things to look forward to this year. But we're very, very excited about something that you've been working very hard on, your creation, Kevin, which we're calling the Family Wealth Fortress. I it'd be interesting today if almost I interview you so you can share with our listeners everything about the Family Wealth Fortress, what it is, who it's for, how it's going to help. Let's start with, know, why now, Kevin? You know, what have you been seeing?

Speaker 2 (04:09.134)
with especially high net worth families that's led you to create this.

Well, I suppose, you know, over the years, we've been helping people build their wealth and we've always articulated security, then independence, then the higher levels, which we are in the five different levels of wealth abundance, and then from abundance into legacy. We never had a program taking people from abundance into legacy. We had some features in Academy, which talked about providing lessons to the next generation.

But what prompted me more than anything else, Chris, was the inheritor's tax on pensions. Because you talked about high net worth, right? But that's a sort of a weird term. But now high net worth is anything over a million pounds. So if you do a little mental calculation, dear listener, if you have things you own minus things you owe, just do a little bit of mental maths.

you're for the sake of an argument in married couple, then the most you can need before an inheritance tax starts to remove money from the life of your next generation is a million pounds. And with pensions being included in that assessment from April 2027 and my own pension being somewhat significant, then it prompted me to do a complete rethink of how I'm approaching my own abundance and legacy planning.

made me think, well, these things that I'm doing for myself and these principles that I'm working through for my own family, I should share those for a couple of reasons. One, good practice, walking the talk, but also I suppose I'll get some good feedback from others as they decide to see whether it would be a good thing for them. the whole concept is still embedded in the principles that have been long established in

Speaker 1 (06:09.23)
Wealth builders, which is it's almost impossible. And I'll say almost because somebody's going to be a, um, a rare exception to become wealthy from solely being an employee and solely relying on the stock market. It takes too long. know, you're hoping for the best. You're not creating recurring income. And if a stock market crash occurs like it did in 2008 and could and will happen again.

You don't have any real security and in an uncertain world, my contention is security, real genuine certainty comes from having multiple streams of recurring income. Well, we know that we've talked about that for long enough, but as soon as you get into the realm where you're building up success, like Tom, you're building more assets from where you started.

You're building up layers of complexity and that complexity very quickly can be devilishly difficult for the next generation to work through because they don't understand how you created it. They don't actually understand what's there. And many people don't have good records. know, so we'll talk about record keeping and the approach we're going to take on record keeping. And as a result, I think it's become.

quite difficult to transfer and pass on wealth in an elegant way. Now, if we go back to the sounding principle or the founding principle really, which was embedded, if you recall Chris, way back, I don't know, when we coined the Declaration of Independence, when was that? I'm not talking about 1774. I'm not that old. Come on, you cheeky person.

But I'm going to say at least sort of 2014.

Speaker 1 (08:07.95)
Yeah, I think 2014, right? So in 2014, one of the principles of what we call the new declaration of independence was to build wealth and to build the wisdom that you used to build it to transfer that onto the next generation. there hasn't really been a process we've taught about how to make that transfer really, really well done.

with minimal inheritance tax, minimizing risk, maximizing returns, all of those things so that the wealth keeps growing, but it's growing in a sensible way that can be maintained and passed on and the next generation can understand it and hopefully go on to extend it and become stewards of that money in the future, custodians really. So I wanted to teach those principles. Instead of hinting at them, I wanted to write them down.

teach the principles. So I've coined the term the family wealth fortress because it's principally aimed at families who want to pass on the wealth to the next generation. It doesn't mean that we're alienating people who don't have children. It doesn't mean we're alienating people who've got nieces and nephews but no kids of their own, or they've got, you know, furry children and they're dog lovers or cat lovers. No.

we're saying is whoever you want to ensure that the recurring income and the assets that underpin that, that you want to perpetuate and pass on, whoever you want to pass them on to, whether it's a person, a cause, or a foundation that you create for yourself. I was talking to Simon Zucci the other day. We were chatting about this.

And he said, I want, definitely want to create a foundation, Kevin. It's, I've got a passion for particular area of interest and he wants to create that. And I think that's amazing because that's as good as any other legacy, isn't it really to do it that way. But anyway, the principles of the family, so family wealth created either through assets or through business and many business owners who sell their business or create valuable businesses.

Speaker 1 (10:30.626)
haven't yet discovered the recurring income principles. They just happen to sell and get an exit. And so we're seeing a lot of those who are not really able to pass that wealth on in the way that they want to. Their kids don't want to take on the business, so they need to almost relearn some lessons about what to do with the capital. But the fortress idea is the principle of saying, how do we perpetuate that sort of bulletproof? That it becomes absolutely

unimpeachable. You can be damaged, you can be dinged, but you can't be ruined. How do do that in a way that will last for hundreds and hundreds of years? That's what I've done.

That's good. I'm going to pause you there then Kevin, because I know there's so much that you want to share and we'll try and structure this as best we can or as best I can try and do for you here. So if I'm picking this up right, big picture here, you talked about real world problems we're experiencing at the moment, but in the financial world, fragmented advice, tax leakage, lack of joined up planning, bringing all these things together.

You know, we've got frameworks, I like frameworks, and in wealth builders, the frameworks for recurring income are the seven pillars. And we know what they are. We've done that to death, haven't we really? So we know them inside and out. So seven ways to create wealth and only seven and still only seven, even 10 years, 12 years later. The seven integrations are the key to taking a holistic 360 degree view.

of your overall financial situation with the view to locking it down. When I thought through the seven, I kind of did a mental examination of if you're building your wealth and then you want to pass it on and protect it, what are the main categories that you're going to deal with and you're going to have to do it and see that there are connecting parts, there are things that link between one and the other? For example, people always ask me, should I do a

Speaker 1 (12:41.186)
family investment company or a trust? I don't know. I need to know your tax position. I need to know your asset position. You see how what I mean there. These linkages like a CAT scan. So probably, you know, in the sense that over the 30 years or so that I've been doing this, I'm probably going to rebadge myself instead of the wealth coach, which I've done for years with business owners, I'm probably going to be the wealth GP. And

I know enough about the seven integrations and I'll share those with you in a minute, but I don't know enough about some specialist areas. So like a GP, you would have a commitment to your wellbeing, zero conflict of interest, only prescribing what's good for your family. That's who I want us to be. But recognizing we need to call on expertise where we need to, just like a GP would call on your dodgy knees, Chris.

get your knees fixed or whatever would be. I had a shoulder thing a few years ago and they referred me. That's what should happen and that's what we'll be doing too. But in order to solve the complexity and recognize that if you're listening and you're thinking about this, you probably asked a question where the answer is it depends because it links to something else. So what people tend to do and it's natural and I've seen it now

is the build up a patchwork quilt of products, ideas, guidance, advice, structures and things that are really very difficult to understand. Are they all working optimally? Are they all working effectively? So let me share with you what those seven areas are, Chris.

And just before you do that, Kevin, what I'll do, I'll put a page together because I'm sure people who are listening now would love to see a visual. I'll put that page together. I'll share a link.

Speaker 1 (14:40.994)
And I know that these things are in my head, so they need to get out and people need to reflect on them. Maybe help me because there's, you as I say, this is brand new. By the way, it's by invitation only, so we're not offering it out there. We're saying, know, frankly, you know, we want to select people who are willing to take the right actions, not just to learn this, but here's the principles anyway.

For those watching our song video, I've managed to put it up on a screen here.

Here's one I prepared earlier. Okay. So within the family wealth fortress, for it to be impenetrable, we need our seven key areas and each of the different specialists will exist within that. So the first one is tax. And the reason why tax is so critical, not least is the introduction of inheritance tax on pensions in 2027. Now,

Most people who are building their wealth have a proactive relationship or usually do, at least they're interacting with their taxes during the year. They're doing income tax returns, corporation tax returns, Chris, but they're not doing what I call event led tax returns. In other words, they're not planning and thinking about things that might happen or probably will happen. And inheritance is one of those. I don't think I've known anybody who's told me in advance,

This is what my inheritance tax bill will be, bearing in mind it's not them will pay, be the next generation. They just don't know what it is. So what we're trying to do is bring in a proactive review of all the likely taxes as well as the ones you're having and seeing there's a connection between all of them. And certainly inheritance tax, and I think you're going to share later, Chris, a unique and bespoke inheritance tax calculator.

Speaker 1 (16:40.056)
that we've created so anybody at any point in their life can do a quick sense check as to what that inheritance tax bill would be and anybody over a million is going to have a bill. So that's why this is aimed at people with states that are created of a million or more. The second area is legal. Now we know in Wealth Builder Academy, we talk about the roof, the basic principles of

wills, powers of attorneys, and so on, putting life cover in trust. what we're not seeing in many cases is business owners with the right legal agreements, links to structures as we get onto structures that once you start to look at things where you're putting something in place, you need to know what's the legal implication of that and all your assets protected. We noted that recently, Chris Inouye, which was a bit of a surprise that somebody was using the wealth builder brand or wealth builders, know, part

at least using something that we thought wasn't right. But because we protected the brand, we were able to defend ourselves. Well, you what's the legal risk that you might have to your wealth? And fundamentally, that's important if somebody could damage that in the future. And one of the things I've noticed is I get a bit more involved in this, Chris, is there's a whole new area of law, because I'm dealing with a lot more lawyers now. And there's a whole area called contentious probate. And what on earth is that?

I thought, well, okay. What I've discovered is if people don't correctly give reasons for everything that they do, then if any words they put in their will or anything around that that's misunderstood, then that can be challenged. And if a challenge comes, it delays everything, it increases the risk to the estate, in some cases, as we've seen in the press.

You know, money can be lost to professionals just to defend things. And as we're building up more wealth, we need more protection. the right IP protection, the right contentious legal protection, are you doing anything at all that could be challenged in the future and so on. So that's a couple of examples. So just making sure that we've got the right lawyers that we can call on. So it's not that we want our clients somehow to go and talk to all these specialists.

Speaker 1 (19:07.518)
try and learn what to do and have 25 different conversations with 25 people. We're putting wealth builders at the very center of this so that we can ask the question and almost act as if we're getting all the advisors in the same room. They're not literally coming together, but they're coming together in a virtual room to say, we're looking after this family. What do need to think about when it comes to, here are their legal documents, are there any challenges here?

here are their tax position? Is there anything that we should be thinking about moving forward? On the financial side, things most people have got some form of an advisor or some form of fund manager. And as we get through and learn more about financial things, we're not always seeing that the financial advisors are focused on the protection. They're more focused on the building. Well, what about accelerated ways to invest in a product that will

cut down the timeframe on which you essentially escape the inheritance tax from seven years to three years. There are ways now where if you look at a whole family, instead of just seeing advice given to a person or a couple, you can now look at a whole family and aggregate and see the whole position of the North, the South, the East, and the West, literally the whole family. You can aggregate their money for the purposes of counting it and saying,

Hey, all the cash in your family, you can aggregate that for counting purposes and get a higher interest rate. You can aggregate that for purposes of investing if it's funds and reduce the cost of managing money because AI has brought incredible benefits, but those benefits invariably are not being passed on because the silo invest advisors are just talking about your situation and invariably not talking about perpetuation of the money.

but just simply the building up of it. You're getting the idea of how these connecting parts work? You want me to carry on going?

Speaker 2 (21:12.758)
Let's go. we've covered tax, legal, financial, and the fourth integration.

It's structures. The more complex your affairs become, the more you have to look to other structures. And I've mentioned family investment companies as an example, creating new holding companies if you've got a limited company. So you've got the separation of two different companies for protection, but also you've got the separation for the movement of money. All very valuable things that I didn't know an incredible amount about specifically.

Certainly with family investment companies where you can create different share classes and different ways to freeze the value of your current assets and transfer the value in growth shares to the next generation. So these are things that are becoming more complex. Not that we want, as I say, all of our family wealth clients to become completely focused on understanding everything. It's doing one thing at a time.

taking one small step at a time in the same ways we've always done with the wealth builder Academy program, which is spend one hour per month to do one thing. And that's what we'll be doing. Now, SAS has been around in wealth planning for us now for a very long time, but there are some distinct differences for SAS for inheritance tax planning. So we need to be sure that our clients are understanding that pensions are going to be added.

to their inheritance tax bill, how they can use SAS and the very specific benefits around that to mitigate inheritance tax through the concept of earmarking, cascading money from different members of the group scheme. Again, going back, when you get financial advice, you tend to get advice for a couple. You don't get it for a whole family. Whereas SAS is for the intergenerational family. It can be up generation, you, and the next generation. So you can have three generations.

Speaker 1 (23:15.63)
of people's money in a single pension structure, which gives you incredible flexibility to redirect investments, flexibility to lend money from that structure to another company owned by your children. And then you're growing the benefit for them while maintaining the value in your pension. So we've got to get smarter as the tax bills become more, you know, more pervasive. So definitely Sasson, we've helped thousands of people.

with SASs, but they're having to get more knowledgeable about how to operate those SASs because up until now they were always IHT free. So we didn't have to teach them that. Recurring income, as you know, is a bedrock of wealth building, but the reason why it becomes even more crucial in the future is it's, inheritance tax again, is a tax on capital, not a tax on income. So if you can understand your recurring income, and a big challenge for most people, Chris, that I talk to.

who are in that sort of wealthier family and an older generation, typically 55 plus, they say, how do I know how much I can consider gifting when I don't quite know what my situation is? So, okay, it's a great question. But what if you knew that the life that you want can be fueled by X thousand a month and you've got capital put by for your own emergencies, a peace of mind fund, but anything else that's over that.

If you wanted to, you can make gifts from income with no limit, gifts with no seven-year clock, gifts that once you've done and documented, and we're having to create a whole new process because the in-land revenue, very sneaky. You know, they've got a whole army of AI bots and other things looking for where your money is when you die.

to make sure you haven't been gifting things and they look at social media and they look at bank accounts and they're trawling everywhere to make sure gifts which are self-declared on death, the executives declare them and say this person made gifts and they're trying to find other gifts that inheritance tax should have been paid on. Well, if you follow something called an IHT 403, right, which is an inheritance tax document, which is statement of intention, then a statement of execution of everything you do and why you do it.

Speaker 1 (25:37.634)
You'll never have a problem. And if you store all of that in a digital vault, so that all of your records, all of your tax, all of your legal, all of your financial, all of your structures, everything is stored safely, that's accessible to your executors, then nothing can be lost. And your bulletproof fortress is there available for anybody to inspect and to see. So critical to do that, but I never knew that, you know, until I started investigating it.

Okay, so you got to do that. And then finally, it's the legacy not finally you've shuffled off the mortal call. By the way, my wife said to me the other day, I don't think she was trying to hasten my demise. But she said, where does the phrase pop your clogs come from? Interesting, isn't it? Because you know, with lots of euphemisms for death, shuffling off mortal coil, popping your clogs. And that's an interesting one. So the original idea is the word pop comes from

the word to pawn something, right? So you trade in for a cash sum. And based in sort of old working class Northern England, you needed them clogs. But if you popped them, you pawned them, you're only ever going to do that if you're on Death Store. So that's where it came from. And I love these fascinating little derivations, right? you know, just really interesting. So not that I'm intending to

Pop my clogs and wear clogs, but nonetheless, you get the idea. But the point about the legacy is we want to involve the next generation. We want them to be part of the story. So having them as SAS trustees from minimum age 18 means they're starting to be involved in some of the family structures. Then if you make them growth shareholders or alphabet shareholders in

legal limited companies, family investment companies, for example, you're starting to involve them. If you're then getting them to do some things, you can pay them inside your company, for example, to do some work, including using AI, doing things that would be useful for the company to prepare it for an exit, whether it's to be sold, whether it's to be handed over, run by the family and EOT, and they're all changing the tax on employee ownership trusts.

Speaker 1 (28:03.01)
which is a structure of all change. The governments have the tax benefit of that. So all of these things will start to come together. And the idea then of the legacy by bringing the children in so that the greatest wealth transfer in history that we're going to see is done elegantly. It's done with wisdom being passed on coming back to the very starting principles that were established in 2014.

You know, this is, this is to me, and probably, you know, it's important to say this Chris, this is probably my swan song project. It's probably my last project for wealth builders. You know, it's going to be built. It's going to be run, but you know, within five years I'll be, I've trained everybody to do it and run it. And, and, and I'll be out of here.

Very comprehensive there, Kevin. Let me summarize that for those who are listening. So not to be confused with our seven pillars, we're talking about seven integrations here, seven aspects that form the family wealth fortress. Those seven being tax, legal, financial, structures, SAS, pensions, recurring income, and legacy. All of that together. Might sound like a lot there, Kevin. There was a lot. But that's the complete opposite of what we've, well...

The point here is, yes, there is a lot. It is complex and most people won't have all of the connections, won't have the time. And we're here to really be the glue that joins all this together, that coordinates it and relieves you of all of those burdens and stresses to think about.

Yeah, the fact that is a lot doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but it's currently in the financial ether, isn't it? You have to do it, but nobody's doing it. You know, I've started testing this out and we've taken on some clients now to test it out with us. But what they're saying is we've been looking for this. We've had a sense of frustration that things were not working at the right level. The accountant was backward looking, not forward looking.

Speaker 1 (30:05.58)
That the advisor was always focused on value, not focused on the end result for the family. And there wasn't a way to bring the family in and to minimize the taxes and get them involved. so I think these things have to happen, but I'll stress the point Chris, that this is a project for a family. It might take them five years to implement, but that's because they've already built their wealth. They've already got to a reasonable place and will help just make it stronger.

and gradually build it. still going to be an hour a month, still going to be broken down into different stages. The first year is where the main work is going to be done because we've got to capture all the information. need to almost do a stock take and do that CAT scan to diagnose, what are the actions that need to be considered? Then looking at the pros and cons, what actions should be taken? And then when those actions are taken to measure those results. And I think

For the first time, we can actually probably even take a risk ourselves and know if we invite the right people in, there isn't anybody we can't find 50 grand for. There isn't anybody we can't do that for. So we know that if we charge a fee, they're going to get a multiple return on that fee guaranteed because it's when you start to do this work, this CAT scanning work and seeing the linkages, there are incredible savings and gains to be made that are just being missed through.

the fact that people are not seeing them for themselves. I that's helpful without being overwhelming.

Yes, I hope so too. We'll put a page together and make sure that's live. Let's keep it simple, wealthbuilders.co.uk forward slash fortress, where we'll put the logo. We're not quite ready to go yet, but as you said, Kevin, having lots of conversations with people and families in the background. For someone who's listening today, would like to have that conversation, what would you say to help them decide whether they should apply?

Speaker 1 (32:08.562)
Well, read the document, think it's better because then you'll see these things and it'll slow it down for you rather than just listening. Re-listen to this, but just have a conversation. It costs nothing. And we're not offering it to anybody. So, we're trying to make sure there's a good fit. looking at the situation and we think if we don't think it's the right candidate, so they're typically going to be families, family wealth fortress.

over 55, they're going to have tax-free cash issues with pensions and retirement issues to build into this matrix of ideas. As I've already said, a million or more because they're already looking at inheritance tax. The two million or more, they're being hammered for inheritance tax because they're losing an allowance for inheritance tax that you get up to two million. Those who've got even more, you know, the

tax savings are massive. So you put good tax savings on inheritance tax, you're saving millions. And with a long plan, you you could probably get it to zero. So I'm very optimistic that for the right people, this is a financial no-brainer. But I think for the first time though, people feeling this can be confidently handed over to the next generation because it's well organized, well documented, well coordinated and

well understood. You know, when you do all those things well, over the course of three to five years, say, then you have got a fortress. You haven't got a patchwork quilt.

And as we've said, this will be an application based program. need to make sure that you're a fit for us and likewise we're a good fit for you. You've said that.

Speaker 1 (33:58.562)
And there'll be a limit to the number, Chris. There won't be, there'll not be hundreds, you know, there won't be more than a hundred families. Now probably, you know, something that we can't really cope with more than that. So an intake of possibly a hundred, not thousands for sure, but looking forward to it and already testing it, not just personally, but with, with other clients who have known us for a while and floated this by them and they loved it. know, so we're starting to work with them now. And then we'll get a.

sense of the savings and the gains and the value we can make. So then we can position that. I only want to work on results. I don't want anybody taking a risk here. So, you know, that's the key for me. So you pay this, you're going to get that. No questions. It's going to happen. There's a minimum and then it should be a no brainer. But anyway, let's see if people like the idea, Chris, I'd love if somebody's got another idea like we had with this seven pillars. Can you give me number eight? Is there something I've missed?

as there's something we could think about before we launch it on the website and launch it out into the real world. But it will be launched in the coming weeks and where you and I and Paul are working hard on creating the right words to make it understandable and not too overwhelming for people. But in America, they do this, Chris. It's called a family office and you need a hundred million to do it because you've got a sophisticated team covering all those areas in your life on the payroll.

What we're saying is we'll be a virtual family office helping a select number of families to work together to do this. So there will be opportunity to meet and share some of the lessons you're learning and some of the implementations with other families. It's not an obligation. People don't have to do that, but we enjoy the community aspect of wealth builders. And I think primarily as our wealth builder members who succeed through the security to

independence tell us they love the coaching and they love the community. So we'll continue with both coaching and community in the family well thoughtless.

Speaker 2 (36:06.286)
Absolutely. yeah, this invitation to come and put your name down, have a conversation. This is open to members and non-members. One of the first steps, a really easy step that if you haven't already done so, is to take the free IHT calculator and work out exactly where do you currently stand in terms of your current assets and taking into account the pensions being included in that estate equation for inheritance tax coming soon next year.

April 27. So yeah, take that first step at least and we'll make sure we embed a link to take that calculator on the

fortress. Only one caveat I need to stress here Chris, it's a very important one. You have to be prepared to live beyond April 2027.

Let's hope everyone plans that. So wealthbuilders.co.uk forward slash fortress. Go there now. Put a link in the show notes. You can scroll, click that, have a look at the logo, understand it a little bit better. Listen back to today's episode. Or if it doesn't apply to you, perhaps forward to a friend. And we've got to think about parents as well here, Kevin, haven't we?

That's a great shout, Chris, because the generation that are older, of course, than our main clients, those in their late 70s and 80s and maybe even in their 90s, they will have built assets as well. Invariably, what we're hearing from our wealth builder clients is the older generation invariably are not talking. They're not thinking, they're not talking, they're not sharing. Some do and that's fine.

Speaker 1 (37:43.416)
But the vast majority are not. So essentially there's no discussion, there's no gifting, there's no serious intention for the longevity. It's like we build something, you're going to get it. And the event that leads to you getting it and understanding it is the death. And when that happens, sad and as tragic as it is, there's a legacy that needs to be honored. And we spoke to a client the other day and said, our family just paid a million pounds in tax.

a whole million. It's not small sums, a million in tax because the elder family just weren't open to widening the discussion and widening their thinking. It was very traditional thinking. I think that's part of the problem. People are sleepwalking into this inheritance tax, which is going to catch an awful lot more people out with the freezing of the allowances and the introduction of pensions.

However, having said that, Chris, the more those conversations can be had with those who are still willing for that conversation to take place. And we do get conversations facilitated from our members to their parents. And they're often very open-minded and welcome. Somebody independent having a conversation with them, know, so that the kids don't feel like they're trying to influence them in any way.

And, you know, we enjoy doing that. So those conversations are welcome. If you've got people who are open-minded, not complacent, the lights are still on, not the lights have gone too faded. definitely, Harris's tax can be saved with a bit of planning. So anyway, it's a good point. Thanks for raising it.

Well, thanks for covering that, Kevin. I know this truly excites you. Maybe what excites you most about this, about the long-term impact that this could have on families and future generations?

Speaker 1 (39:43.992)
I think it's the, if you think about that million quid, when the guy said it, and it's almost like he's rubbing his brow saying a million pounds of hard earned money, life's work in some cases, where they've taken risks, they've put their money into a business or they put their money into property or they put their money into investments after tax, and then they're paying tax again. And if it goes to them and they don't plan it,

their kids are going to pay tax on it, so it's going to be taxed again. To me, it's just not right to simply allow these things to happen without a test of this. And then the use of that money, that million pounds in the hands of the next generation or the generation after that or the generation after that, can bring new entrepreneurs into the world, new ideas into the world, can make somebody feel safe instead of insecure.

And these are very powerful things that are important to me. And for those who resonate with me and those things that are important to me, because they're important to them, this is going to be fun to get done.

We really hope you enjoyed today's episode and we'll be back in two weeks time, Kevin.

Yes, it used to be weekly, didn't it? So seeing a couple of weeks with friends, seeing a fortnight, don't pop your clocks.

Speaker 2 (41:02.05)
Alright, take care, see ya!

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