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Helping Women Build Financial Resilience w/ Davinia Tomlinson

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Unknown Speaker  0:01  

The purpose of wealth talk is to educate, inform, and hopefully entertain you on the subject of building your wealth. Wealth builders recommends you should always take independent financial tax or legal advice before making any decisions around your finances.

Christian Rodwell  0:19  

Welcome to Episode 173 of wealth talk. My name is Christian Rodwell, the membership director for wealth builders joined today by my side face to face. Mr. Kevin Wheeler in Vegas. How you going? Good. Good. Thanks. Yeah, we've

Unknown Speaker  0:31  

had a strategy day to day. Yeah, head to the 2023.

Unknown Speaker  0:36  

Yeah, feeling a bit tired after my Bavarian escapades fresh from Munich. Yeah. You know, they do some things rather well, bear they do well, yes. But at first they do very well. Yes. But otter bombs. They do well, but they do bad coffee, man. I couldn't find a good coffee for love. No money.

Christian Rodwell  0:56  

And you haven't got your late husband on either. Thankfully. That's good. All right. I'm glad you had a nice weekend. Good. Yeah. And we're celebrating as well, because we've had our 200 review on Trustpilot. This week.

Unknown Speaker  1:08  

Well, too bad time.

Christian Rodwell  1:10  

Yeah. Thank you, everyone so much, because so many people have said how they've enjoyed listening to the podcast, and we'll, we'll read our 200 review out after today's interview. Yeah, very good one today. Yeah. Davinia Tomlinson, founder of rain check, and rainchecks all about helping women build financial resilience. And

Unknown Speaker  1:31  

Rei g n low but not our aim. Well, yes.

Christian Rodwell  1:35  

And we actually, you know, we focused on this topic previously. In the past, Kevin, Episode 34. We did women and wealth. And then episode 36 of wealth talk was women in business. So kind of point back to those episodes in the show notes. They were really good. And, you know, we know that despite outliving men, women currently save up to five times less for retirement. And Davinia definitely wants to change that.

Unknown Speaker  2:01  

Yeah, well, she's a lady on a mission, isn't she? And quite rightly to, because the statistics are always scary. And she brings them into much sharper relief than I need to do that. But I feel passionately about that, too. If you look at our SAS clients, you know, they're typically men, 75% men, the number of women who are in their 50s, who've got literally no retirement provision. I think I might have mentioned the stat.

Christian Rodwell  2:29  

Yeah. One 1.2 million of women in their 50s. no provision for retirement

Unknown Speaker  2:34  

at all. Yeah, I mean, literally, just a few days ago, there was National Pension Tracing day. Not that I got much publicity, Chris. But is it's the fact that so many people get disconnected from their pensions. And there's over one and a half million people who have lost their pensions and quite a big majority of them are women, who, for one reason or another move on in their life from different roles and responsibilities. They sometimes leave their pensions behind almost consigned to a well, this won't be worth much. And when they change, jobs, change, families change names, lots of changes going on. And those changes often mean that the very casualty is retirement provision in pension. So that's why we're so glad when people highlight that, but also equally glad when women focus on building their own wealth be a stakeholder in their own wealth as Davinia will be sharing.

Christian Rodwell  3:34  

She will end date Yeah, so Davinia is mission is simple to help women build financial resilience and sustainable wealth to live the lives they love. So let's head on to our conversation today with Davinia Tomlinson, the vignette. Welcome to wealth talk today. How are you?

Unknown Speaker  3:50  

I'm brilliant. Thank you, Christian, thank you for having me.

Christian Rodwell  3:52  

You're very welcome. It's such a pleasure to have you here. And I have to, you know, send thanks out to a mutual member of your own community. And as Samantha who, you know, initially told me about the fantastic work that you're doing. And I explored, and I was captivated. And I knew straight away that we had to have you on the podcast. So it's, it's gonna be exciting today to hear exactly what you've been doing as the founder of raincheck. So do you mind just telling us what is brain check?

Unknown Speaker  4:23  

Yeah, absolutely. So range check is now four years old. And I always refer to it as my third child. So I have two daughters. raincheck is my third baby. And it was basically born out of my career within the Investment management industry. So I started my career on a graduate scheme at one of the world's largest asset managers. And I think very early on, I recognise that, you know, whilst I love and still love the world of finance investing, there were some significant gaps. And of course, I wouldn't have been able to articulate it in that way as a 22 year old, but there were certain gaps, both in terms of representation of women in senior leadership positions within the organisation. There were some amazing mentors and power Women, you know, that I was able to look up to, particularly within that organisation and elsewhere, but in terms of, you know, real concentration of senior female talent, that was an area that seemed to be particularly lacking across the industry as a whole. And then also, you know, if you consider that the finance, and particularly the investment management industry is responsible for trillions of dollars of assets, under management on behalf of investors worldwide, the proportion that was being managed on behalf of female investors was negligible. And so that really piqued my interest as to what some of the reasons might be behind that. And then fast forward, you know, through to 2018. You know, it was effectively a journey of discovery for me, and in kind of recognising that actually, even over the course of my career, whilst they were great, there have been great strides taken to, you know, around diversity and inclusion, by, you know, trying to get more senior women in there, but there's lots of great work, you know, you see that on a global basis. But in terms of really closing that gap, from a wealth gap perspective, if you like, women are still very much lagging our male counterparts. And so raincheck is my contribution to doing something about that. So initially, it began life as a financial education, qualified, unregulated financial advice, and then this kind of sense of community. So kind of a digital platform that enabled women to take control of their financial futures to understand the building blocks of the, you know, wealth creation, Wealth Management, what that might look like, and to do so in a way that was non condescending, non patronising open and relatable. And that's the Rainmaker community.

Christian Rodwell  6:35  

Yeah. And that community now is spread across the world, right? So global community.

Unknown Speaker  6:39  

Yeah, yeah, so we have rainmakers in the UK, the US in the Middle East, parts of Europe. So it really is a thriving global community. And what we see through that, of course, is that, whilst you know there are different jurisdictions around, you know, from a regulatory perspective, in terms of the the access to certain type of investment, for example, when it comes to the challenges, the unique challenges that women are facing, when it comes to their money, there is a lot of commonality, irrespective of where we live.

Christian Rodwell  7:05  

Yeah, and I think we talk about principles, right. And we teach principles, and those, you know, work all around the world when it comes to building wealth. And as you say, you know, people have the same challenges. And, and we all have the same mindset, you know, and mindset issues, don't we? I know, that's kind of a bedrock as well of what you teach.

Unknown Speaker  7:22  

Yes, absolutely. I mean, we have a five pillar framework. And I'm sure we'll come on to talk about this very similar to what you have a wealth builders, but it's really important to provide when we're thinking about, you know, trying to bring people together trying to put you know, to almost distil what are the key challenges that we're facing as women on a global basis, and what are some of the key solutions that we might all strive towards? And I think having some kind of framework and structure around, that is a really great way to focus people's minds.

Christian Rodwell  7:48  

Yeah, I was doing a little bit of research just before this podcast, and, you know, statistic from Harvard Business Review is that even in 2022, women are still earning 17% less than men on average. So how are you seeing things change? Is it picking up speed? Are things still moving? You know, probably slower than they should be? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  8:09  

I mean, definitely, I would say slower than they should be. I mean, what I am somebody that is by personality, by nature, very impatient. So you know, when it comes to things like this, you know, one of the big challenges that I always have for the industry as a whole is Why is it taking so long. So these are issues that we recognise plague women, particularly when it comes to salary, we know some of the drivers around that. So one of the big ones, for example, is around women, taking time out of the workforce, perhaps to have children and then to care for those children in the early part of their lives. And so what that will do, of course, is impact, you know, our lifetime earnings. And of course, that will then have a knock on effect on the amount that we're able to save and invest for later life, which, you know, potentially opens up other challenges as we come to the end of our working lives. But, you know, from my perspective, it's really about what if we have the power to close some of these gaps? Why are we not proactively doing that? So that is my you know, always my big question, if you like, why is it taking so long?

Christian Rodwell  9:02  

Yeah. And I heard you mentioned on a previous podcast as well about Equal Pay Day, and it's actually coming up to that date again, isn't it at? Can you explain a bit more about that.

Unknown Speaker  9:12  

So Equal Pay Day is the point in the year at which women will effectively stop being paid for their work and effectively, you end up working till the, you know, the end of the year for free. So, you know, compared to our male counterparts, women are earning several pence less in a pound than they are. And as we say, you know, we think about, you know, when you extrapolate that you think about the long term implications for our ability not just to create wealth, and to put that to good use in you know, from an intergenerational wealth, perspective and legacy building and planning, but it also compromises our quality of life. When you think about you know, the different nature just societally. There are lots of, you know, high flying professional women, lots of them are part of the Rainmaker community. And we are living and working in a very different way than we have done historically, where, you know, if you think about our parents, our mothers and our grandmothers generation where lots of them would have been married, lots of them would have, perhaps, you know, illustrative You know, household, you have a male breadwinner. And the woman is, you know, her role is within the home, you know. Whereas now we've got, you know, lots of women that are choosing to get married later or not at all, choosing to have children later or not at all. And of course, all of these things will impact the extent to which we're able to, as I say, build wealth. You know, think about overall household income, if you're a single income household, then of course, you're going to already be at a relative disadvantage, potentially to a dual income household. So there are lots of these sorts of issues that all conflate to create quite a sticky situation for some women. And these are things that have been compounded if you're looking back to the last couple of years in the pandemic, you know, to your question about, you know, have we seen improvements? Yes, there have been strides, as we've talked about with regard to gender diversity inclusion. But even when it comes to equal pay day, you know, down ethnicity lines, you know, certain types of ethnicities, again, there's a racial wealth gap that opens up and then that's compounded for women that come from certain ethnicities, black women, for example, Asian women in the US, Latin American women. So there are some of those challenges, too. So it really is, you know, a really critical time for us, because lots of those strides that had been taken, were wiped away, they were washed away by the pandemic, but women were shouldering the vast majority of responsibilities for unpaid labour within the household, as well as shouldered responsibility for childcare, social care, and everything else, as well as working.

Christian Rodwell  11:27  

Now, we often see the wealth building process, we refer to as transformational because you see the change. So what are some of those changes that you see most often? What are some of the common things that are holding people back when they first find and discover your community to Vineya? And then after learning after building more confidence, you know, how do they almost you know, develop and evolve through that process?

Unknown Speaker  11:51  

So good question. I think for me, I mean, lots of lots of the women that come to raincheck, they find me because initially, they think that their big challenge is, you know, I want to start investing, I'm hearing all of this talk about investing, they know my background is within the Investment management industry. And so they come to me because I represent, you know, arguably a relatable, friendly face, you know, in a sea of, you know, quite a homogenised industry in terms of the people that you see represented within it, which can be quite not, if not intimidating, and certainly off putting for women who are coming from lots of different backgrounds, but just want to speak to someone who they feel like they can have an open honest conversation about some of the questions they might have about investing and why they haven't done it. So I think, you know, that's the initial start point for lots of them. You know, there is a lot of conversation about risk. You know, I think there are certain preconceptions and certain stories that we might tell ourselves about being risk averse, and being supremely cautious when actually, you know, there's a lot of evidence that women are taking risks all the time, they're calculated risks are, but you know, they're still risks. But what I find, you know, in terms of the biggest transformation is around the psychology of money, our relationship with money, and the extent to which we give ourselves permission to even have these conversations. So whilst you know, there's a lot of practical and kind of technical information that the rainmakers receive, as through our programme, you know, we were talking about this is how you might invest, this is how you might build a portfolio, this is why you need to acquire assets, etc, etc. These are some of the practical elements, but actually, the more significant part of the thing that is transformation is helping them to transform their mindsets around money. You know, for lots of women, they don't even want to have a conversation around wealth, the word wealth is completely alien to them. So we view it as something that's the, you know, the preserve of certain people from certain backgrounds, and not necessarily for us. I mean, we're talking about women that are earning good amounts of money, they're of mid to senior management level, as a minimum, the vast majority of the rainmakers, or they run their own businesses. So real high flying women, you know, incredible women that still have a mental block when it comes to having conversations about money, because societally we have been conditioned to believe that it is vulgar, we are not really worthy of talking about money, that it's masculine, it's not for us. And so part of the big transformation is opening up their minds to the fact that actually, you are acquiring wealth is not just doing a good service to yourself, and improving your overall quality of life. But thinking about future generations, thinking about the people in your household, your loved ones, children, partners, parents, etc. And that really starts to open things up. And, you know, it's incredible the things that I hear from rainmakers as to why you know, what they've grown up hearing from their parents and other guardians. But also, you know, what are some of the things that are holding them back? You know, what, why do they self sabotage, for example, when it comes to their money? Why are they not, you know, despite having all of the knowledge and awareness and understanding why they're not taking that first step to invest their money? So I find that starting from, you know, whilst they think, you know, actually I need to know how to invest their money. The reality is actually we need to work on your site, this your behavioural finance, the psychology of money in order to get you to where you need to be.

Christian Rodwell  14:51  

Yeah. And the community. I know the training is delivered online. Is there also a face to face aspect to the community? Yes, so

Unknown Speaker  14:59  

because it's global, that the entire programme is completely digital, but what we offer is the group coaching, which is far more powerful than I think anybody could could ever imagine. And I think there's a real power that comes from women getting together in a virtual room and having very open candid conversations that are completely confidential. Of course, they're within the four walls of the screen. And for us to be able to share, you know, some of the things that are holding us back to cheerlead and champion one another on. But in addition to that, there is also a one to one coaching that is offered for all rainmakers, which gives them then an opportunity for, you know, for us, between us to appraise their personal financial situation to isolate some of the individual goals that they have. And to get really crystal clear about how do we intend to achieve these goals? And what financial building blocks do you need to have in place to get there?

Christian Rodwell  15:47  

And we talked about different strategies. There are many different strategies out there. And of course, wealth builders, we have Seven Pillars of Wealth. And we'll come on to the five pillars in a second. And what are some of the strategies that someone might expect to learn about when they join rain venture community? So one of the

Unknown Speaker  16:04  

you know that one of the things that sits at the heart of the programme is thinking about, you know, what are the two levers if you think about your financial health, what are the two levers that make up the bulk of your financial health. So when we think about, you know, I always talk about raincheck, being intrinsic to your overall well being. And the reason for that is if you think about the relationship between your financial well being and all other aspects of your wellness, you know, anybody that's in financial distress, and I'm sure we've all at some point in our lives, felt that squeeze felt that pinch, and as a result had that commensurate, you know, anxiety. For some people, it can then lead to panic attacks, it can lead to depression. So your financial well being is about more than just you know, how much income you're making, it's about the all aspects of your wellness. So that kind of is the linchpin of what we do at raincheck. When we think about the strategies, you know, we're thinking about what are the different levers you have at your disposal? So, you know, we Bandy around these terms online, we talk about net worth, you know, what is your net worth, and so we do an exercise in which we're all, you know, calculating our net worth, and it's terrifying for lots of rainmakers. Because, again, this language and you know, it's about getting people comfortable and familiar with this language and applying it to themselves. In order to recognise you have a stake, you are your own biggest stakeholder in your wealth creation. And so you have to know your numbers, this is not something we can opt out of. When we think about our net worth, it's saying, Okay, well, what assets do you have? What liabilities Do you have? And how are we making these calculations? So it's establishing, what can I do to improve my net worth position, because I think lots of us start from a place of net worth has to be preceded by the word high, or ultra and high. And so if you're just somebody that, you know, everybody has a net worth, but if you're somebody that has a middling net worth, lots of rainmakers, oh my god that my net worth is negative, like, it's terrible, I don't even want to confront it will actually, then it's thinking, what are the levers that I can pull. And we apply this same principle, this exercise to our net cash position. So thinking about your net worth, as your long term wealth creation metric, and your net cash is a short term kind of dynamic operational metric. And we're comparing and contrasting the two throughout the programme and saying, right, if you've got a net worth, that's x at this state, what can you do to improve it, so you can either increase your assets or reduce your liabilities, or you can do both simultaneously. So that's already three actions that you can take. And it's a similar principle for your net cash. If on a day to day basis or month to month basis, you find yourself really squeezed going, how come I got more month than money? You know, when it before payday? What can I do? So it's improving my income or reducing my expenses or doing both simultaneously? And what are some of the things that actions that you might take? So again, it's drilling down? It's saying like the these are the principles? These are the metrics, if you're thinking about your, your net, you know, your overall financial health? And what are the specific actions. So this is not a theoretical, you know, let's just get together and shoot the breeze about money. It's what are we actively going to do? That will mean at the end of this six month programme, you can look back and track your progress in a really quantitative way?

Christian Rodwell  18:58  

Yeah, so giving them a long term plan, because we know building wealth takes time. It's not something that happens overnight. And I know you talked about setting goals and, and kind of working backwards from there, right? So

Unknown Speaker  19:09  

yes, yeah. So I think, you know, when we think about our goal setting, and again, this is a thing that everybody talks about goal setting, many of us who come from corporate backgrounds will know about appraisal time and being able to set your goals and setting SMART goals and all of that what we do at raincheck is to say, right, when you're thinking about setting your goals, what are the costs associated with course, again, we're coming back to the numbers, what are the costs associated with you achieving those goals, and of course, there is a financial cost. So lots of us will be able to immediately say, right, if I want to buy a house, then this is what it's going to cost me. This is how much I might need for a deposit. But then there are a number of other costs that are associated. So what's the opportunity cost? If you're putting all of your money away, to save for a deposit on a house? What are some of the things that you might have to give up? Are you willing to pay the price? It's the emotional cost. It's the mental cost. Do you have the capacity right now? Are you completely swamped, burnt out stretched? If you're not in a position to bear the cost of achieving some of these goals? Then what it means is you have to take a decision, again as to is difficult I want to pursue, do I need to make it a lower ranking goal? And so it's, again, really helping women guiding them and coaching them around, are you willing to pay the price and appraising it against one of a number of different criteria. So it's not a, you know, this is a goal I want to achieve. And it's something really abstract. And it's, you know, let me put a picture on my vision board, we do all of those things, too, because it's really important that you know, that we retain that element of, you know, big, visionary, big picture. But in order to get to where we want to get to, we have to take action. And we have to recognise that it's a number of micro steps that are required to get to the big goal.

Christian Rodwell  20:39  

Yeah, we had a previous guest who's talking about, you've got to create a life by design. And sometimes in the short term, you have to cut back on some things, you know, you have to kind of, you know, sacrifice in order for that long term gain. And I think that's kind of what you're saying as well. Right? In some facts. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about pillars then. And, you know, how do you refer to pillars within the community.

Unknown Speaker  21:02  

So we talk all the time about the programme being about helping you establish solid financial foundations that will last you a lifetime. And the way that we do that is through our five pillar rain frameworks with REI GN. And it's just a really simple acronym that enables us to kind of work through the modules. And you know, there are six modules is a six month programme. So lots of them will be, you know, woven in across each of the pillars, but we've got so for the arm, it's about, you know, thinking about retaining, what's your retention strategy, when it comes to your money when it comes to wealth? Because, you know, we've all heard those anecdotal stories and seen the memes about the lottery winner, who wins a million pounds and then blows it instantly, because they have not been trained as to how to manage that money. So it's about how can I protect what I have, with with all other things being equal thinking about, you know, we're about to enter into a really terrible in atari time globally from an economic perspective. And if you're thinking, right, gosh, I'm really frustrated, I'm not able to earn any more. And I, you know, I've got all of these other demands on my time, but the one thing that you can do is protect what you have. And so we talked through some of those strategies around that. And that includes a number of different things. It's about tracking your expenses more effectively, it's about budgeting, it's about thinking about, you know, certain financial protections that you might need to take to make sure that you're preserving the value of any assets that you've bought, including yourself, including your own life. So that you know that, you know, I've got a good infrastructure around the things that I do have, and I'm protecting that. The second pillar is E for earn. So it's, you know, what can I do to diversify my income to increase my income? So how can I maximise the income that I've already got, which might be through negotiating more effectively, when it's time for a pay increase? If you're a business owner, it's thinking When last did I increase my rates? You know, in exchange for the value that I'm delivering to these clients? Can I take on any more clients? Can I get a side hustle, you know, what are some of the things that you can do to generate additional income? The third pillar is AI for invest. So this is when again, you know, lots of women's come to me, because you know, this particularly interested in my investment expertise, it's thinking about all the different types of asset classes that are available. Of course, immediately, people assume that investing is all about the stock market. There are a number of different asset classes and we talk through them. The GE is for growth. So now, you know, having invested that money, how are we growing it? What's the actual strategy? What's the asset allocation strategy to grow that money, and then the N is for nurture. So when we're thinking about our money, what kind of system do we have in place, we don't want to spend, you know, hours and hours a week poring over, you know, what's happened with our money, all of these different accounts, we don't really know where anything is, you know, lots of rainmakers say to me, oh, my gosh, I've had three or four different jobs since I left school or since university, don't know where all the pensions are, don't even know if I had pensions attached to any of them. So we don't want to spend time, you know, it's time that could be spent somewhere else another value adding activity. So we have systems in place to make sure that we can track everything effectively that we are keeping ourselves up to date, we're holding one another to account. And that's the five pillar framework for rain.

Christian Rodwell  23:42  

We love that we love a framework. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that vignette. And one of our pillars is intellectual property. And you're in the process or perhaps have already finished writing your first visit your first book,

Unknown Speaker  23:58  

cash is my first book. Yeah.

Christian Rodwell  24:01  

Queen and this is written exclusively for preteen and teenage girls, and we'd love to hear more about that.

Unknown Speaker  24:08  

Oh, yes, thank you. Honestly, it really I feel so proud of it. So effectively. Caches queen is a process that started probably 18 months ago. And it is now written it is available for preorder. And it really is my contribution to helping and equipping the next generation of rainmakers, young women who will enter the workforce will enter adulthood. And unless we proactively educate these young women, and of course, this is not something that applies uniquely to young women. But given the challenges that we know, adult women go on to face when they you know, enter the workforce without having the right level of financial education without having the awareness of around some of the issues they might face and how they might mitigate them. Of course, the onus of responsibility is not exclusively on us, but we are very stoical. In the Rainmaker community, we're all about controlling what we're able to control. So cash is queen as somebody that is a mother of two daughters. It really was, you know, really special for me too. be able to say this is my contribution to equipping that next generation with the knowledge, the tools and the mindset to take control of their financial future very early. So if you imagine a 13 or 14 year old coming in have a cup having a conversation with their parents, or grandparents or grandparents even around, you know, let's talk about how money is managed in this household? How can I earn my own money? What should I do with that money? When I earn it? How can I avoid some of these social media scams? You know, there are constant scammers out there preying on young people? How can we help them to identify the clues and red flags and raise the alarm with with the grown ups in their lives? How can we help them to conceive of a reality in which they're able to, you know, enjoy their work to pursue careers that really enrich them and fulfil them, but also enable them to preserve their wealth, get them comfortable with the language early on, so that we will have, you know, a super confident, super financially savvy generation of young women that will be coming up through the ranks, that will hopefully have far fewer challenges when it comes to their finances, then, myself and my peers had when we came out of university and didn't have a clue.

Christian Rodwell  26:02  

That's absolutely amazing. And we were talking beforehand, offsuit, sharing about wealth bills for families, which the programme we've been working on as well. And we both agreed that you have to get the parents involved, right. The education system is still teaching the same old ways it was probably when we were at school right hasn't really evolved. It's very tough to kind of change that. But the parents are the future they can share. Obviously, their enthusiasm. And, you know, that's that's, you know, I think, a common ground that we both have there. Yes, absolutely. Completely agree. Yeah. And the book is out on third of January. That's right. Yes. So

Unknown Speaker  26:38  

it's available for pre order now. But it's out in the book shops on the third of January. Yeah, good. Well,

Christian Rodwell  26:42  

I'll make sure that we share a link with this podcast. So anyone can preorder that right now. And then I just have to ask, I suppose to Vineya, with the economic climate as it is, at the moment, we've lots of concerned lots of worry, probably the next few years being a little bit, you know, up and down. What's your advice? What are you saying to your members about how to build wealth over the next few years ahead?

Unknown Speaker  27:06  

Yeah, so for me, it really is about, again, knowing your numbers inside out. So you know, this is not something that we should be shying away from. And I recognise that there is a lot of anxiety, a lot of confusion and uncertainty. And I think, you know, interestingly, this is something that is not unique to those at the lowest end of the income spectrum, I think that is a misconception that many of us will have, you know, there are rainmakers that are earning significant amounts of money and still have, you know, whilst the challenges may be different, the anxiety remains, that uncertainty that we're all thrust into, as a result, the economic volatility is something that, you know, impacts everybody differently. And so what I'm saying to people is, you know, I'm hearing from people Oh, my God, you know, my mind the value of my investments today versus January, you know, at the time of speaking, you know, it's the end of October. And, you know, people are saying, you know, I really feel like I should pull my money out of my investments, and I should, I should move it somewhere else, I should put it into a savings account, because, you know, I feel that it's more secure, it's not going to lose value. And so again, it's going back to first principles, and you know, you know, reiterating the messages around, the reason we invest is to benefit from compounding, we want to benefit from compounding over the long term. And whilst we're seeing, you know, increase rates, certainly in some of the savings accounts, as interest rates are increasing, you know, from the Bank of England, at least in the UK, and actually globally, you know, the Federal Reserve is doing a similar thing. And we're seeing this out, you know, across the globe, whilst interest rates are increasing, which may mean that they are passed on to some degree to through to savings account, inflation is still outpacing the rate of interest that you might receive on your savings account. So you were still in terms of your purchasing power, worse off, if left there. So it's, again, thinking about hold some cash, there is still a paid place for cash in your portfolio, but it is not going to be a significant net contributor to your wealth creation, you still need to maintain that focus on investing in assets. So don't by any means pull your money out of your, your investments, look at your asset allocation, look at the risk profile of your investments, if you have a financial advisor, obviously have a conversation with them, but recognise that this is not the first economic downturn that we've experienced in our lives. It is frightening, because for lots of us is you know, it's perhaps the most significant one or the one the worst one that we've experienced in terms of our working lives. But investments, you know, is is ultimately a long term wealth creation strategy, among another, a number of others. And it's important that you're able to hold your nerve and take that long term view on the basis that just like we've done in history, we will, you know, weather this storm, and withstand the market conditions that continue to prevail. So it's just about, you know, looking away, making sure that you know, your numbers not checking avidly every day that's going to raise your anxiety, but just trusting that the markets will always correct themselves and that over the long term, you will still create the wealth that you were hoping to for yourselves.

Christian Rodwell  29:55  

Yeah, that's great. And as you say, over the long term, the markets just continue to get higher and higher and higher. I didn't, yes, thank you so much for sharing everything with us today. If anyone who's listening now wants to go and follow you check him out on social media, where are some of the places they should have to?

Unknown Speaker  30:12  

So the first place I would always ask people to check us out is the website. So rain So it's our AI, n ch And sign up to the newsletter, because that's where you hear first about anything, including the book. And you know, the launch of the next cohort of the rainmakers Academy, which goes live in January. And then you can follow us on all social media platforms at raincheck.

Christian Rodwell  30:34  

Fantastic, well, we are definitely going to be following you and looking forward to the release of the book. So good luck with that, and look forward to catching up with you again very soon.

Unknown Speaker  30:42  

Brilliant. Thank you, Christian.

Christian Rodwell  30:45  

Okay, great. chatting to Davinia. There, we'll pull out some of those wealth lessons in just a second. Kevin, let's get to that. 200 for review first. So congratulations, Robin. Thank you, Rob, for being our 200 reviewer on Trustpilot. And Rob says I've gained so much knowledge, listening to podcasts. And then wealth builders, educational online courses really helped me forwards. However, after a question I posted in their Facebook page, I didn't expect to get a reply from Kevin offering to help. And then a one to one zoom with Paul Brooks really put my mind at ease and giving me clarity, as he explained a strategy or two that will really help me focus on building my SAS pension. Many thanks, Kevin, Paul, and the team.

Unknown Speaker  31:28  

There you go. So it is a team effort, isn't it really? So the question would have gone into the help desk, the help desk, you know, I will often take a look. And I'd love to be available. I know sometimes people think that perhaps I might not be available. But I'd like to be available want to be. And I think many people who testimony to that. But also yourself and Paul and other members of the team pay attention to so SAS is a very specialist area. Everybody's heard us talk about that. It's a way of well, as Divinia was saying about so many people, so many women don't take a stake in what they're doing. assessed a way for people to absolutely take a stake and to be a owner and creator of their own pension wealth. So their pension becomes a part of their future, not a sad representation of where they were in the past. And I like that very much. So thanks to all 200 review, we look forward to many, many more.

Christian Rodwell  32:26  

Yeah, indeed. And lots of parallels lots of shared values with Davinia shared pillars

Unknown Speaker  32:32  

in a way as well. Absolutely. I love it when a good pillar comes out.

Christian Rodwell  32:36  

So, yes, and, of course, a global network that Davinia is building there. And I think we've said previously that really the principles apply no matter what country you're in, there will be nuances, obviously,

Unknown Speaker  32:49  

nuances for sure. But principles, best thing is to learn principles, isn't it really, because principles mean there will work wherever you are, and also dispenses with this notion that somebody's a guru, somebody's got an opinion that somehow is unmask some secret. It isn't secrets that make you wealthy distinctions. Yes. But those distinctions are more often born out of principles, followed by others. And then you find a pathway I've got, wow, that's interesting. I've never saw it from that perspective. But it's a perspective taken on a principle, not some kind of wacky idea that comes out of something that has just fatter your or something brand new.

Christian Rodwell  33:34  

And Davinia said that your net worth is really your long term wealth creation metric. And your net cash is your short term operational metric. Once you make that, Kevin,

Unknown Speaker  33:46  

I'm not really sure about that so much. I think she's a very eloquent lady with some interesting ideas. But the reflection and the parallel, I suppose, is when we talk about wealth builders, we talk about building wealth from a perspective of having a solid sustainable flow of cash from the ownership of assets. Well, if you build an asset, it's got two dynamics, one, the cash flowing aspect of it, whether it's property, whether it's pensions, whether it's your home, intellectual property, we probably know what those pillars are by now, if you've been an active listener, but in addition to that, each pillar has a value. And those values hopefully, will be sustainable, or in fact, they will grow. Certainly, you'd expect that with property or real estate. So the combination of two, one is a snapshot, take a photograph, where are you right now, very relevant for things like inheritance and inheritance tax and so forth. But of course, you know, we think the cash flow is the more important of the two, because you can spend cash, you can't spend your assets because always there's a there's a big tax implication and, you know, leverage can get in the way of that as well. So, but of course, you can work on eliminating the liabilities. is building your assets or part of wealth building to ensure that you give yourself stress testing, particularly relevant right now with interest rates on the move, and of course, the Bank of England have increased base rates to 3%. So consequently, the margin for lenders will tend to rise, we expect to see interest rate rises, which will put more pressure on people who are borrowing to build their wealth. So both are equally important for cash flow. And net cash flow is the one that we focus on most within wealth builders.

Christian Rodwell  35:34  

And we know the mindset is the starting point, you have to have the end goal in mind. And also you have to overcome some of those fears and issues that we know hold people back when it comes to building wealth. And that was something I thought was interesting in the way that Davinia talked about, really thinking about what are the costs associated with achieving your goals? And actually, there may be a time cost, but it could be an emotional cost. Do you have the headspace right now to be doing so quite interesting concept that that's an

Unknown Speaker  36:04  

interesting one, it's not one that I've looked at as an angle. But I definitely resonate with your thoughts. As I said, a very eloquent lady, with some great thoughts of her own and you we talk a lot about ROI, you get a return on investment, that's an ROI. Reason to overcome inertia. Get off the fence, that's an ROI, you've got the return on your intellect. That's an ROI, you've got a return on interaction, the fact that you're in a community that can bring enormous value, that's an ROI. And lots of other ROI as well, including impact, doing things which have a good societal impact, that's a return on impact. So that's another ROI. She's flipped that very nicely to talk are really about a cost of investing. So the emotional cost, the physical cost, the time cost, and maybe quantifying those in advance will be really clever, because it allows you to think through are what do I need to do to orchestrate things to make this really worked well. So very smart

Christian Rodwell  37:08  

thing. Yeah. And hence why working with a coach with someone to bounce those ideas have a sounding board is so valuable. And we know it's hard for people on their own building wealth, they can sometimes feel a bit isolated.

Unknown Speaker  37:20  

Building your wealth on your own is one of the hardest things to do. Because you don't always get to make those distinctions that's talking to somebody listen to a podcast is great. You can get a distinction or two from that. But the best way to interact is to talk and engage with other people. Because they'll give you a different way of looking at things, different perspective on things. Even just the sounding board benefit is a good thing. You talk to somebody here out loud. Yeah, no. And we do that a lot, don't we, the reason why we meet in a, what we call a leadership team is because we like to hear each other's viewpoint, to see if that distinction that you get from somebody else just sharpens your own thinking a bit. So being involved in the community. And it's nice to see that she's trying to lead one too.

Christian Rodwell  38:04  

Yeah. And another fantastic thing that DaVita venues were working on is the new book, caches queen. And this ties in so nicely with the wealth builders for families programme. And, you know, hopefully we can find a way to bring the veneer in and, you know, share some of the amazing content that she's included in that book with our community.

Unknown Speaker  38:24  

Well, absolutely some great IP there for from her perspective. And what a great title for a book cashews queen. Well, we've heard cash is king, but she's taken it to another level. So I liked everything she had to say, Chris, good, good choice of guest.

Christian Rodwell  38:39  

Yes. So thank you so much Davinia for coming and sharing with us. And if you want to go and check out the venue's raincheck community then we'll put all of the links in today's show notes for you. So we will be back. Same time, same place next week. I

Unknown Speaker  38:54  

mean, I don't think we'll be in this place, but we'll be in a different place for sure. And until then, my friend so yeah.

Unknown Speaker  39:03  

We hope you enjoy today's episode. Don't forget that we are constantly updating our resources inside the wealth builders membership site to help you create, build and protect your wealth. Head over to wealth right now for free access. That's wealth

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Episode summary

Davinia Tomlinson started rainchq in 2018 after 15 years of working in the investment management industry and becoming frustrated with both the poor representation of women in senior management positions and low engagement of women when it came to their finances.

Rainchq is a thriving global community that offers financial education, coaching and advice to women at all stages of their financial journey. It was born out of Davinia’s commitment to helping women take control of their financial futures and live their best, most financially abundant lives.

Through rainchq, Davinia has discovered that despite differing access to certain investment opportunities around the world, when it comes to the unique challenges that women are facing when it comes to their money, there is a commonality irrespective of where they live.

Tune in to hear Davinia discuss what she has found to be the biggest thing that is holding women back from achieving financial resilience, rainchq’s 5 pillar approach to building wealth, R.E.I.G.N and women’s equal pay day.

Resources mentioned in this episode